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MC Accident Causation Study
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Fairly old study that I don't recall seeing before. Some findings are intuitive and some not so much so, in fact a bit surprising. Caution, requires a bit of reading for just the summary on this web page.
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html
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Bucky
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(Loquacious)
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09/04/11 07:11 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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That's the "Hurt Report". It helped shape training curriculum after publication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report
Due in large part to the extreme increase in frequency of US motorcycle fatalities since the Hurt Report was published, a new study, begun in 2009, is underway at Oklahoma State University.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/research/tfhrc/projects/safety/motorcycles/MCCS/links.cfm
Apparently it may take a matter of years to conclude and publish. They want to dig in pretty deeply to go beyond who is at fault to include causation if possible. One source figured a cost of $7500 per accident to complete the study.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/pdf/811280.pdf
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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09/13/11 02:29 AM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Here, let me save them a lot of time and money...
CAGERS ON CELL PHONES!!!!!!!!
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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A very old man pulled out in front of me yesterday. No cell phone involved. I understand that cell phone usage causes a lot of wrecks (I dont like to call them accidents). I don't think they they should be banned though. I think the penalty should be higher. Like maybe a $30,000.00 fine for being at fault while using a cell.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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"Very old man" NOW that brings up another topic on age limits..  
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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We don't need more restrictions. Just heavy penalties for destroying another persons property and life.
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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09/19/11 10:16 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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I agree...without getting on a soapbox and violating the AUP, I'm against adding more laws about anything.
But I'd certainly support vehicular manslaughter/assault charges for persons causing a crash while using a cell phone.
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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09/19/11 10:18 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
A very old man pulled out in front of me yesterday.
If you happened to be up in Killeen for some reason, it was probably my father-in-law.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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I'll always remember a time when a friend's mother was giving several of us a ride home from school on a rainy day. She pulled out from a stop sigh in front of a VW. My friend said, "Mom, there's a car coming!" Without looking, she said, "Oh, I can't see small cars." Obviously, she did see it or she would not have known the size. This, I suspect, is the cause of a lot of cage/bike accidents, damn idiot thinks, "Hmph, motorcycle. Can't see those." and turns anyway.
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brindle
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(Loquacious)
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09/20/11 02:47 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Or they think "Can't hurt me" 
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Alscot
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(Adjunct)
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09/21/11 05:33 AM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
A very old man pulled out in front of me yesterday. No cell phone involved. I understand that cell phone usage causes a lot of wrecks (I dont like to call them accidents). I don't think they they should be banned though. I think the penalty should be higher. Like maybe a $30,000.00 fine for being at fault while using a cell.
when I'm World Dictator I shall insist that everytime we make a new law , we also repeal one somewhere along the line
Al
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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09/27/11 03:02 AM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
I'll always remember a time when a friend's mother was giving several of us a ride home from school on a rainy day. She pulled out from a stop sigh in front of a VW. My friend said, "Mom, there's a car coming!" Without looking, she said, "Oh, I can't see small cars."
Why do I strongly suspect said mother was driving an oversized SUV?
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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09/27/11 03:05 AM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
when I'm World Dictator I shall insist that everytime we make a new law , we also repeal one somewhere along the line
Al
Well, Your Awesomeness, might I humbly suggest repealing TWO for every one passed?
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Quote:
I'll always remember a time when a friend's mother was giving several of us a ride home from school on a rainy day. She pulled out from a stop sigh in front of a VW. My friend said, "Mom, there's a car coming!" Without looking, she said, "Oh, I can't see small cars."
Why do I strongly suspect said mother was driving an oversized SUV?
It was a '49 or late '48 (similar body to the '49) Oldsmobile 4 door. Most cars back then were big enough to get up and walk around inside.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Helmets work, and they don't cause neck or other injuries. There is no indication that they interfere with control or perception. Riders who wear helmets are simply much less likely to sustain head injuries.
I this really a question? or is the question rather, do you care about the difference?
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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10/13/11 10:23 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Quote:
Why do I strongly suspect said mother was driving an oversized SUV?
It was a '49 or late '48 (similar body to the '49) Oldsmobile 4 door. Most cars back then were big enough to get up and walk around inside.
Ahhh....same sense of invincibility, just with WAAAAY more class and style. (and totally lacking in the sense of self-absorbed entitlement)
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SSGRex
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(Adjunct)
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10/13/11 10:25 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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PS to Alscot...
My comment "Your Awesomeness" wasn't being snide...just felt it was an appropriate title for a World Dictator. Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't translate as well online, with no expression/body language cues.
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Dwight
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(Fe Butt)
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10/14/11 09:56 AM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
My comment "Your Awesomeness" wasn't being snide...just felt it was an appropriate title for a World Dictator. Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't translate as well online, with no expression/body language cues.
Well Eric, you DO know that that's what these things here can help project to the casual reader, don't ya?!--->      
 
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Yep that's that thing you were talking about for ya.
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nbsdave
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(Greenhorn)
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02/21/12 12:09 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Quote:
Helmets work, and they don't cause neck or other injuries. There is no indication that they interfere with control or perception. Riders who wear helmets are simply much less likely to sustain head injuries.
I don't know the source of this quote and i do not mean to hijack this thread, but the quoted statement is patently false!
Look up diffuse axonal injury-head damage without a blow to the skull. Also neck injury is a very good possibility, That is a first hand observation as I underwent treatment for same as the result of being rear ended.
Check out "Leatt brace" also.
Sorry to barge in, but i have a strong aversion to misinformation being passed about.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Holy undead nightmares, this thread was dead and buried but has been resurrected.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
A very old man pulled out in front of me yesterday. No cell phone involved. I understand that cell phone usage causes a lot of wrecks (I dont like to call them accidents). I don't think they they should be banned though. I think the penalty should be higher. Like maybe a $30,000.00 fine for being at fault while using a cell.
Another way to look at is that if you are at fault in a collision and were talking on a cell phone or texting you should get at least the same sentence as if you were driving drunk. Both situations involve voluntarily diminished capacity, why should they be treated differently?
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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I agree.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Fairly old study that I don't recall seeing before. Some findings are intuitive and some not so much so, in fact a bit surprising. Caution, requires a bit of reading for just the summary on this web page.
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html
Just heard a blip on TV this week that a study showed little difference in fatalities in MC crashes above 13 MPH between helmeted and non-helmeted riders and that in some cases neck injuries were increased in helmeted riders. I may have not heard it right, but I think that was the jist. I don't think it will stop me from wearing a helmet, but sitting at a yard sale (the wife dragged me into it) on 62 between Gateway and Eureka Springs last week convinced me that 80 to 90 percent of the Harley riders believed it.
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Dwight
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(Fe Butt)
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06/05/12 03:28 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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I don't know if that's actually true or not Phil, but that reminds me of the off-duty cop who was killed last year in Phoenix while riding his Harley Electra Glide without a helmet.
They showed the accident scene on the news, and I swear the Harley looked like it had just rolled off its kickstand. There was very little damage to the bike that I could see, anyway. And so, while I don't know how fast the guy was going at the time, it sure couldn't have been all THAT fast.
And here's a little side note to this story:
The guy lingered in a coma for about a week before he died, and a few days afterward, his family appeared on the news and was begging people to wear their helmets while riding their motorcycles, saying that if he HAD been wearing one, and because of severe head trauma being the cause of his death, there was no doubt in any of their minds he would've survived the crash.
(...food for thought there, huh...and I'm glad to hear you're still wearin' your helmet...I'm absolutely sure that wearing one during an accident I had about 17 years ago now, did, at the very MINIMUM, save Yours Truly from a bout with serious head trauma too, if NOT worse...and I still have that helmet in my collection to prove it...oh, and btw, I was goin' about 35 to 40mph when that freakin' kid pulled in front of me)
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Dwight
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(Fe Butt)
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06/05/12 03:48 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Addition addendum to above...
I don't know why I waste my keystrokes typin' stuff like that up above there, 'cause OF COURSE, no matter WHAT people tell those out there who decide to ride without a helmet or how much logic you throw their way, they will rationalize their choice(and YEAH, I DO believe it should be a freakin' CHOICE) usin' the most ASININE reasons you or I will EVER hear or READ!!!
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Jayhawk
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(Adjunct)
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06/05/12 04:19 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
... a study showed ...that in some cases neck injuries were increased in helmeted riders.
I've always believed this. Of course I've always felt that it was a matter of the coroner saying, "hmm, died of a broken neck", versus, "hmm - since that bucket they brought in with him contains what brains they scraped off the road, I'd say that's what killed him."
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Dwight
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(Fe Butt)
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06/05/12 04:25 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Well Mark, like I said RIGHT above there.......
(...yeah, you're right...I "make more friends" being this way....NOT!!!!)
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
I don't know if that's actually true or not Phil, but that reminds me of the off-duty cop who was killed last year in Phoenix while riding his Harley Electra Glide without a helmet
Yes, we also had a local police chief who just recently hit a left turner while in Florida at a rolling thunder meet who died of head injuries in a Florida hospital. Same story - no helmet and a Harley that didn't look that bad. We also had Arkansas Coach Petrino who didn't die when he drove his Harley into a ditch, but his career sure died a quick death. Don't know if a helmet would have saved the career, but he said he didn't wear a helmet because it made him look like a cone head and he wound up looking like a bonehead instead.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Interesting report from 2009 here : www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811208.pdf
Don't know if this was the source of the TV blip I saw, but one frightening chart is the sharp rise in MC deaths in the 40 and over age group from 98 to 07. More boomers buying Harleys and doo rags? Sure hope it isn't the rise of our Americas and Speedies.
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Dwight
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(Fe Butt)
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06/05/12 08:52 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
...but he said he didn't wear a helmet because it made him look like a cone head and he wound up looking like a bonehead instead.
BINGO!!! And that's MY guess as to the reason some guys, if not MOST guys, refuse to wear a helmet: EGO...plain AND simple!!!!
(...of course, MOST of 'em will deny this to their dying breath and claim that it's really about "FREEEEEEEEDOMMMMM"!!!)
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Keith
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(Stickman Yogi)
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06/05/12 10:40 PM
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Well, just yesterday I dropped buddy's Wing. I was turning around... doing maybe 2 MPH and over she went. Buddy said he did the same thing a few times before getting used to the weight. Anyway my head hit the pavement with a serious blow, the kind where it hurt even though I was wearing a helmet. I hate to think of the outcome without that brain bucket on.
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Re: MC Accident Causation Study
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Quote:
Well, just yesterday I dropped buddy's Wing. I was turning around... doing maybe 2 MPH and over she went. Buddy said he did the same thing a few times before getting used to the weight. Anyway my head hit the pavement with a serious blow, the kind where it hurt even though I was wearing a helmet. I hate to think of the outcome without that brain bucket on.
A buddy who rides a newer Gold Wing says it is easier to handle because the CG is very low including having the gas tank lower than most bikes with tank position above the frame; I've never tried to straddle his Wing myself - way too much expensive looking stuff on it for me to risk it.
The PO of my America who put 30K miles on it from new bought a Harley when he moved to Arkansas from Texas because his wife decided to ride with him again (roads and scenery much nicer in Arkansas) and promptly dropped it on his leg stopping on gravel; I didn't ask whether he had a helmet on, but he was still recovering and on crutches when I bought the America.
And I hate to admit that I dropped the America on my first slow ride around the neighborhood when I stalled it on a steep little uphill; it cost me a scratched mirror, broken brake lever, and bruised ego, but no head injuries in my old bell 500. Judging from a few scratches on both TORs it wasn't its first time down but that was little consolation for my stupidity. So far it is the only time for me, but I still like to be prepared.
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