UW1Chuck
Complete Newb
Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 1
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Regarding Helmet Laws:
I have been a registered nurse now for 8 years. Of those 8 years I have worked mostly in various intesive care units. This includes neurosurgical units. I wish everyone could see firsthand what a head injury patient looks like. Trust me, you would wear you friggin' helmet every time you went out. You would also see how terribly families suffer when their loved one was just too cool to wear a helmet.
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3166
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Regarding Helmet Laws:
I have been a registered nurse now for 8 years. Of those 8 years I have worked mostly in various intesive care units. This includes neurosurgical units. I wish everyone could see firsthand what a head injury patient looks like. Trust me, you would wear you friggin' helmet every time you went out. You would also see how terribly families suffer when their loved one was just too cool to wear a helmet.
Agreed, but it should still be up to the rider. Using the same logic our legislators could outlaw bikes altogether.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3166
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
smoking effects those around us unlike helmets or seatbelts 
The studies on secondhand smoke are seriously flawed. But it is very popular to go after smokers anyway. Most people just accept that the smoke is dangerous to others just because they don't like it. The actual evidence is very thin and almost completely anecdotal. Similar to the arguments over loud pipes.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Saltatrix
Adjunct
Reged: 05/04/06
Posts: 186
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
The actual evidence is very thin and almost completely anecdotal.
I wasn't aware of that. What specific studies are you referring to? I'd like to read them.
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A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Nietzsche
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bennybmn
Should be Riding
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 12689
Loc: Long Island, NY
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I don't think the smoking thing is a great comparison... But it is certainly one of those things that tons of studies have been done on, and as we all know studies are inherently flawed in that they only use a sample of the population. Trust me, if you have asthma, you don't need a study to tell you second hand smoke is bad... Not to mention the smell! Yuck.
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3166
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
I don't think the smoking thing is a great comparison... But it is certainly one of those things that tons of studies have been done on, and as we all know studies are inherently flawed in that they only use a sample of the population. Trust me, if you have asthma, you don't need a study to tell you second hand smoke is bad... Not to mention the smell! Yuck.
The smell, the stigma and the political incorrectness of tobacco make it a very easy target. The Surgeon General recently put out a fatwa against second hand smoke that depends on the same studies that have been faulted previously for their lack of scientific rigor. Like global warming, the secondhand smoke jihad is not held to the same standards most areas of investigation must meet. And, also like global warming, anyone questioning the validity of the anti smoking crowds arguments is accused of the basest of motives while they portray themselves as saintly paragons of public virtue. I’m not saying secondhand smoke is good for you, or that there are no negative effects. But the studies conducted as of the middle of last year either did not prove causation of the negative effects they cited or were seriously flawed from a statistical viewpoint. So sayeth several statisticians I have spoken to and also a statistics professional journal they cited. I am not a statistician, a researcher, a cigarette smoker and actually have no dog in this fight. I am, however, a skeptic and deeply suspicious of anyone who wants to modify my, or anyone else’s behavior for our own good.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Saltatrix
Adjunct
Reged: 05/04/06
Posts: 186
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
a statistics professional journal they cited.
Which one? I am begrudgingly obliged to read some of the primary stats literature for my job, and I'd really be interested in reading the paper you mention.
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A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Nietzsche
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3166
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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When I see them I'll ask them. They told me at the time but I've long since spaced it. I remember it had to do with being considerably less rigorous than usually required to make a causality claim. Here is a link one of the guys steered me to. He works for a health insurance company so he keeps a VERY low profile on this issue 
http://www.davehitt.com/facts/index.html
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Frank
Loquacious
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 3753
Loc: cambridge massachusetts
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i am notmeaning just health wise, i for one cannot stand a smoke cloud around be, especially if i am walking behind someone smoking and more so in a restaurant
Frank
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(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Saltatrix
Adjunct
Reged: 05/04/06
Posts: 186
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Here is a link one of the guys steered me to.
Pretty odd that your source, the professional statistician, referred you to a smoker's rights blog authored by some guy named Dave. Now I'm really interested to read that journal article he told you about!
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A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Nietzsche
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