ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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I drive about 60,000 miles a year and have the opportunity to see traffic enforcement on a regular basis in MD/VA/NJ/DE/PA and NY. Primarily turnpike systems. (over 500,000 miles since my last ticket...) VA isn't the only state with dubious practices.
If you have ever driven into MD on I-95, you are probably aware of the super aggresive speed enforcement. I wrote a letter to the MD State Police commandant two months ago about a practice I observed on 95. Troopers would park on the shoulder of the fast lane, with no shoulder, and run radar. (four lanes of traffic) When they found a scofflaw, one of the troppers would run out into the fast lane and point down a vehicle. The last time this was done the guy in front of me (we weren't speeding) thought the trooper was pulling him over, so he promptly came to a stop in the next-to-fast lane with me directly behind and no where to go. An 18 wheeler locked it up behind me and all I saw was smoke and a Mack truck grill. I couldn't go to the right because of trucks and the tropper was standing in the empty fast lane. I was furious at nearly being killed by this stupid means of enforcement and wrote a letter chastising them. A week or two later, a local sheriff was killed on a county road in MD dong the same thing. MD has now stopped this silliness but I've yet to hear from the MD State Police.
I have recent story for another time involving two PA state troopers pulling a dumb-arse move on I-81.
I try to drive as safely as possible in order to survive and it really sets me off when police officers are the problem. (apologies to any officers on this list)
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Al
Edited by ssjones (07/18/07 05:41 AM)
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lctrc
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Richmond, VA
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This legislation is about revenue. It even states exactly that in the legislation itself. It doesn't even pretend to be about public safety.
It came to pass when VA's General Assembly couldn't pass a 1-cent gas tax increase for transportation funding. This was the "compromise".
It's already being challenged in several cases, and on several constitutional basis. It won't be long before a judge bars enforcement pending outcome. Furthermore, the online petition has actually gotten lawmakers attention - there have already been calls by General Assembly for the Governor to convene a special session for the specific purpose of repealing the legislation. Many incumbents don't want this to be an election issue.
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'05 SM, Bubs, Freak, 45/TBS/155, NGK Iridiums, Nology Wires & Coils, Progressive 440's & Fork Springs
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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John and Larry,
You are correct. I shouldn't post late when I'm tired.
Sorry for taking is so seriously.
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bennybmn
Should be Riding
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 12689
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Al, I'm a big "flow of traffic" kind of driver. Generally the high side of the flow, but flow none the less. I think a lot of people concentrate on that, and if a stationary object (like a police officer) comes up, it REALLY shakes things up. People even SEE a cop car around here and they STAB at the brakes. 4 cars back all of a sudden you are going 30 in the left lane of the LIE. Not fun.
My dad is one of those "slower is better" kinda guys. He'll frown upon you for going 70 in a 55, but if someone is going 40 he thinks its fine because it is "within the law". Well, going 40 in an interstate might as well be standing still!! I'll take my MSF instructors advice. Better to get up and go in the fast lane than become and obstacle for a mack truck.
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Bucky
Loquacious
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 3971
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I worked in interstate transportation for 30 years, and experienced more than a few of these bizzarre occurrences. Whenever a tax is involved, the more bizzarre it was.
A few of the odd ones I recall: MA used to require all out of state drivers to obtain a MA driver's license if they were operating commercial vehicles for the purpose of MA intrastate only work duties. The thought of license reciprocity, common among the 50 states since hector was a pup, was somehow circumvented.
The NY Thruway would impound commercial vehicles for being a few hundred pounds overweight, until the fine was paid. So if the police scale did not match the shipper's scale - tough luck. Show them the money.
MA would impound commercial vehicles if the base plate was not issued by the jurisdiction of domicile.
PA levied an 'axle tax' on out of state vehicles only. It was struck down as unconstitutional, and so PA dug up an ancient foreign franchise tax to levy on the out of staters.
NJ also dug out an ancient foreign franchise tax for out of staters. If a company does not appear on the list of those participating in the tax program, the vehicle is impounded.
It is perhaps my opinion alone that these odd laws often coincide with a states need to raise cash after too many instances of reckless spending. We in NW CT are going to build a 40 million dollar court house on 6 or 8 acres of land. The cost to do the study on this 6 or 8 acres: $500,000. That's a lotta perc testing, if you ask me.
The good news is in many cases, the bizarre laws generally get trimmed back or corrected to somewhat more common sense grounds, but life can get 'interesting' in the mean time.
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77T140V
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1175
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Quote:
I find it interesting that of the 4 Virginians who posted, 2 don't express a real firm opinion …..
You’re correct, this issue deserves more than my normal flippant smart-apple response. I had to do my research first.
Quote:
Here's the online petition, for VA only residents:
I did “sign†the petition against this bill, but not “entirely†for the reasons called out in the petition:
1. The fines inflict a punishment on drivers that is disproportionate to the degree of the offense they committed.
If you review in detail the link in the original post you’ll see it points to a document calling out the specifics. This bill goes way beyond felonies, “loosely†in some cases, addressing misdemeanors. ie…….
“(d) Other misdemeanors, “Any other misdemeanor conviction for a driving and/or motor vehicle related violation of Title 18.2 or Title 46.2 that is not included in one of the preceding three subdivisionsâ€: $300 to the court upon conviction, with two additional
payments of $300 each due to DMV, one within 14 months of conviction and the other
within 26 months of conviction.â€
“46.2-852 RD - GENERALLY - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Any misdemeanor covered in Title 18.2 and 46.2 linked above.
“46.2-853 RD - OPERATE IMPROPER BRAKES - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Brake pads worn, pay the man.
“46.2-860 RD - FAIL TO GIVE PROPER SIGNAL - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Forget to signal at anytime, pay the man.
“46.2-861 RD - DRIVE TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Subjective at best, pay the man.
“46.2-864 RD - ON PARKING LOTS, ETC - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
10mph instead of 5mph in a lot, pay the man.
“46.2-1042 OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE WITH BELOW-STANDARD TIRES (C)3 $300 Misdemeanor 1â€
Better have your state inspection ticket with you, or pay the man. Not from a state requiring annual safety inspections? Pay the man.
The remaining points of the petition don’t bother me, as I consider it the status quo in the capitalistic society I choose to live in:
2. The fines are mandatory, and judges are given no discretion in sentencing.
3. The language of the bill states that the purpose is to "generate revenue" and hence the fines have nothing to do with traffic safety.
4. The bill's sponsor, Del. David Albo (R- 42nd District) is a partner in a law firm that specializes in traffic court cases and stands to benefit personally from this legislation. This type of conflict of interest should not be tolerated.
5. The fines in the bill apply ONLY to Virginia residents, hence unfairly creating different penalties for the same traffic offense based solely on residency.
6. In order to generate additional revenue, points for driving offenses remain on the offender's license for up to 11 years. This will unnecessarily increase the offender's insurance rates for a time frame that is incongruent with the degree of the offense.
So ….. in my humble opinion: If this bill just covered felony level offenses, I would accept it for what I hoped it would be: a way to generate revenue targeting felons and repeat felons by hitting them in the pocket-book. Unfortunately it goes too far as it also encompasses misdemeanors requiring subjective interpretation.
Regards,
Tom
"Virginia is for Lovers"
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bigbill
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6140
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics. 
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude  .
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." ~ Bertrand Russell
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3166
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude .
That means a lot coming from you 
I think the Virginia law is asinine. My post simply took the position I’m sure the self righteous politicians who dreamed it up certainly took and pushed it one step further to show just how ridiculous the concept is. Sarcastic? Sure, so what. If that makes my point so be it.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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bigbill
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6140
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude .
That means a lot coming from you
Looking forward to our next argument  er, civil discourse.
But it won't be on this one
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." ~ Bertrand Russell
Edited by bigbill (07/18/07 10:06 PM)
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Bill
Oil Expert
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 2009
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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I must say these big fines scare the cr*p out of me. I'm a fairly cautious driver (heck, I'm old) but I got tagged in KY by a trooper who was convinced I was doing 90+ in a 65 zone. My GPS backed me up but that cut no ice in my circumstance and presumably, if i got tagged again in KY I'd be in deep glue.
If I'd seen this . I'd have camped out in KY and fought the ticket but I was tired and wanted to get home. The item linked above has excellent hints on fighting tickets. Worth bookmarking.
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2004 America - Starship Touring Edition
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