FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Of course, living in Montana, steering clear of VA is not a problem:
"Starting July 1, an array of traffic offenses, from expired licenses to speeding, come with a "civil remedial fee" attached. That means a motorist convicted of reckless driving (75 mph in a 55 zone would qualify) faces not only a fine of up to $2,500 and a year in jail, but a non-negotiable $350-a-year tax for three years. The law forbids judges from waiving or reducing the fee."
Full story:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/Advice/VirginiasNewSpeedingTicket.aspx
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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EnglishYankee
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 826
Loc: Columbia, SC
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I just read that article the other day, scary stuff. Fortunately they can't enforce the fees for out-of-state drivers. Only problem is that other states are starting to adopt this legislation as well. I enjoyed growing up in Northern Virginia but I don't think I could ever afford to move back.
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LitzerSki
Loquacious
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 3014
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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not with that 675 anyways...
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Mark
Only suckers pay for shots...
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JCBullen
Oil Expert
Reged: 06/24/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Little Rock, AR
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Whew! I thought it was about steering clear of... Oh, never mind! 
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JB
"Long live the Duck Force!"
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EnglishYankee
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 826
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Yeah, definitely not. 
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Arsenalfan
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 4540
Loc: Cleveland, Tennessee
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Holy Moly
Never wanted to go to Virginia anyway
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Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
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roundy77
Loquacious
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 3572
Loc: Houston,TX
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WOW! And to think, I thought the $186 40 in a 30mph I got was bad. These "fees" are downright cruel! What exactly is a "civil remedial fee" anyway? Sounds like extortion.
If we had more comprehensive driver training in this country....
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Stewart
.......
"It's outside your field of expertise."
"Poppycock normally is."
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Virgina had a mini revolt over car tags and toosed a lot of the SOB's out several years ago. Sounds like a good platform for an aspiring politician.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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Pretty harsh stuff, charging you more for breaking the law at the felony level. What are they thinking?
Virginians have started revolting on-line. There's a petition that just about has the state legislature convinced to, if not roll back the statute, at least to take a look at it again in January.
We certainly don't want to penalize someone for exercising their right to do something as simple as felony DWI or felony reckless driving. That you might kill an innocent person is certainly no reason to be charged more for felony violation of a privilege that apparently many see as a right.
And according to the linked article many other states do it as well, not just VA. VA just hasn't seen fit to charge everyone equally. I'm a resident, and I'm all for it, but I think it should apply to any felony violator, as I believe is the case in New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Texas.
But of course since it's in the news for VA, let's just forget about the other states that do it.
So for now, VA would be the one state that out-of-stators would be treated more leniently than the other states who have such laws. You may want to reconsider which state you would steer clear of.
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17828
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Well, so much for my planned suggestion to the Tourist Bureau of that Commonwealth for a slight modification of their motto to.....
"Virginia is for lovers..of velocity!"
(notice if you will how that fell trippingly off the tongue)
I guess it's back to the old drawin' board for me!
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
Edited by Dwight (07/17/07 01:17 PM)
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Why not make 5 over a felony? After all, speeding is speeding! Set the speed limits really low and hammer everyone who exceeds them, yeah that's the ticket! We can justify it as a public safety measure. It's for the children don't you know? Anyone who speeds is endangering the children!! Hanging's too good for him, burning's too good for him, he should be torn to itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive! 45 on the interstate, 35 on primary highways, 25 or 15 in town and 5 in a school zone. With 5 over a felony allowing confiscatory fines and taxes we could balance the budget on that alone. It could be saving lives AND saving gas. Anyone who violated it is positively unpatriotic in addition to being a wild scofflaw. They DESERVE whatever we do to them! Oh, police and public officials would be exempt of course.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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Well, I guess that's to be expected for not toeing the party bash line.
I believe the difference between misdemeanors and felonies has not changed in many years. Of course it sounds good to say that hyperbole doesn't it? And lets not mention that the same could be said for every state at any time... but let's not say that since it's not in the news.
And I wouldn't worry too much about it. I suspect the majority view in VA (and apparently the view here) that you shouldn't have to pay too much to break laws will prevail.
The argument that if you don't break the law you pay nothing has been well buried and will probably not come back.
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Virginia can do anything they want. All I know is if British Columbia, Idaho or Montana had similar laws (and more enforcement) I'd be broke and serving several years in jail right now.
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17828
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Ahem. Well now that you've got Larry all fired up there FJ, why don't you move this thread to the Legislation Forum, so he can go mutter to himself about all this, and we can go visit him now and then between rounds here at The Lounge.
(sorry Larry...but you should know by now that I can't resist this kind'a shot, don't cha?!) 
(and speakin' o' "shot", I'll have another round of that Single Malt over there, Barkeep!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Excellent idea, Dwight!
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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77T140V
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1175
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As a transplated Virginian, I'd like to thank Triumph, or its Thai workers, for constructing a speedometer that reads 10MPH over actual speed.
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Greybeard
Monkey Butt
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 7855
Loc: Charming Clovis NM
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Now, that's the speedtrap that keeps on trapping! 
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Pain is nature's way of saying, "We know where you live".
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vidiot601
Adjunct
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Northern Virginia
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I'll 2nd what Tom said!
Of course with the traffic as bad as it is during rush hour, it's impossible to speed anyway.
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Remember; no matter where you go, there you are.
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Rainmaker
Adjunct
Reged: 05/27/07
Posts: 225
Loc: Carson, VA
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I live in VA and don't object to the law except for the part where the annual tax won't apply to out of staters. Virginia is now discriminating against its own residents. That bites. 
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Yes! I am a Redneck. Any Problems?
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ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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I travel a lot in VA (NOVA), and I'm definitely slowing down! The truckers have been taling about this a lot and they are also scared. Here's the online petition, for VA only residents:
****** VA Laws petition
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Al
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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I find it interesting that of the 4 Virginians who posted, 2 don't express a real firm opinion against (but probably are against), and 2 support the measure (except for the stupidity of not applying to everyone).
And these are the only people in this thread the law will affect.
OK, go ahead and bash on us some more for supporting something that doesn't apply to the rest of you.
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Quote:
OK, go ahead and bash on us some more for supporting something that doesn't apply to the rest of you.
I don't see anyone here bashing Virginians who agree with the law. I see a lot of people disagreeing with the law (or perhaps just the stringent sentencing guidelines) but no one is attacking you personally.
To me the mandatory sentence seems punitive. It looks to me like they're punishing people for something that might happen while they're committing a lesser crime. And only punishing Virginians to me adds insult to injury.
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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Well, I meant the aggresive speed enforcement I've noticed in the past two weeks (Dulles toll road and 495). I assume this stepped up enforcement is related to the new means of revenue. Some VA state troopers mentioned they would give no warnings and would be applying the full fines. I've slowed down to the senseless 55 mph on the Greenway.
My daughter had her lucky break in VA in April. Pulled over for doing 81 on I-81. Only fined $326. The nice officer pointed out her vehicle registration (MD plates) had expired in March....of 2006! I told her most folks would have had their vehicle impounded and a big fine to pay. Guess it pays to be a young girl...
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Al
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vidiot601
Adjunct
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Northern Virginia
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A good observation JJ.
Let me clarify my position as a resident of Virginia:
To penalize one states residents only and not anyone else is a waste of time and taxpayer money. It proves no point, does nothing for the greater good and only alienates that states residents.
This is yet another stupid law to make the pages of a bathroom reader book in the future.
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Remember; no matter where you go, there you are.
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ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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Hey, VA did take cell phones from drivers under the age of 18.
Also, no smoking within 20 feet of a gas pump.
I applaud those measures. I've been bugging our MD legislators for two years to get cell phones out of drivers hands. The Delegates, Congressmen and State Senators are prime offenders to that will never get through. I keep asking why Maryland riders/drivers can't be as safe as those in New Jersey.
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Al
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Wade
Loquacious
Reged: 05/09/07
Posts: 2838
Loc: North Ga . USA
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My 24 year old daughter was just passing thru Va . from Ga . with her not so dark window tint and VSP wrote her a 75.00 ticket , no discussion . 
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2005 Model . Two Fast Eddy stickers , a bell and a clock . She's Lola . She tinkles and keeps time .
http://s649.photobucket.com/albums/uu211/britbike05/
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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Quote:
I don't see anyone here bashing Virginians who agree with the law. I see a lot of people disagreeing with the law (or perhaps just the stringent sentencing guidelines) but no one is attacking you personally.
I must have mistook Larry's post for a bash at my position. I'll re-read it just to make sure. Well, still looks like it to me.
It's just hard for me to understand the outrage at this when it has nothing to do with anyone not a VA resident, and when many residents who it will affect support it.
I would have thought a more appropriate subject tag would have been Steering clear of New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Texas, but NOT Virginia. I'm not sure the other states traffic fines apply to out of state, but it sure seems like it with the fuss being made about VA's not.
And your post that if the surrounding states had a similar law, you'd be in jail. If your surrounding states had a law similar to VA, it wouldn't affect you at all, unless you're carrying licenses from all those areas. So you feed the fire.
Of course, if those laws were like NY, NJ, MI, TX it might be different.
Just a curious note, why did you not mention the other states in the article rather than just the one that would have absolutely no effect on you, as your subject line would lead one to believe it would?
It's just a little unnerving that it seems folks will jump on the bash wagon without getting all the facts, or at least reading the link you posted.
I may have misread the intent of the thread, but it seems to certainly have taken, if not an anti-VA, at least a very negative Virginia tone. Not that I have any great love for this state, I'm a transplant as well, I just think sometimes we don't think before we speak (as it were).
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Obviously this touched a nerve. I thought the story was interesting so I posted it. It's definitely newsworthy. I mentioned Virginia because it is the focus of the article, at least initially. None of the penalties for the other states listed are as hardcore. That's probably why the MSN staff focused on Virginia.
I re-read Larry's posts, too, and aside from the usual bombast (you know what I mean, Larry, don't start with me), I don't see a personal attack.
I'm sorry that you've taken this so personally, but it doesn't change the facts of the article.
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Government, by its very nature, is coercive. Politics and, to a somewhat lesser extent, law enforcement, attract people who like to control others. Having been caught up in legislative speed limit debates and heard state troopers talk about controlling drivers I no longer have any illusions that safety or economy have more than a tangential impact on speed limits, enforcement policies or penalties. It’s all about using the coercive power of government to control citizens. Elected officials and police agencies often set absurdly low speed limits and then strictly enforce them. Partly for the revenue, largely for the power and almost never with any real consideration for safety. I remember driving across Texas on I-10 when the speed limit was 55. Stupid, counter productive and actually dangerous but very politically correct at the time. Highways designed for 80+ MPH traffic being limited to 55, same thing.
When a speed limit is universally ignored that should tell the police and politicians that the limit is too low. It NEVER does, their instinct is to intensify enforcement, increase penalties and tighten control over drivers. They use the excuse that they are increasing safety but that is nonsense. If they cared about safety they would be sitting at traffic lights nabbing those who run them not nailing drivers for 65 in a 55 when everyone is doing 65.
It appears that Virginia has decided to get draconian in its enforcement. Judging by the fines and taxes they want to impose I’d bet the 75 in a 55 driver will get slapped harder then a drug dealer or a thief.
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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tcv
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/13/05
Posts: 1232
Loc: Cape Canaveral, FL
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I use to live in VA and this story is funny to me, because most surrounding states of VA complain about how fast people from VA drive. I remember that "South of the Boarder" billboard on I-95 "VA it's I-95 not 95 MPH".
Tom
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In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular.
Laurence J. Peter
US educator & writer (1919 - 1988)
Edited by tcv (07/18/07 05:30 AM)
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ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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I drive about 60,000 miles a year and have the opportunity to see traffic enforcement on a regular basis in MD/VA/NJ/DE/PA and NY. Primarily turnpike systems. (over 500,000 miles since my last ticket...) VA isn't the only state with dubious practices.
If you have ever driven into MD on I-95, you are probably aware of the super aggresive speed enforcement. I wrote a letter to the MD State Police commandant two months ago about a practice I observed on 95. Troopers would park on the shoulder of the fast lane, with no shoulder, and run radar. (four lanes of traffic) When they found a scofflaw, one of the troppers would run out into the fast lane and point down a vehicle. The last time this was done the guy in front of me (we weren't speeding) thought the trooper was pulling him over, so he promptly came to a stop in the next-to-fast lane with me directly behind and no where to go. An 18 wheeler locked it up behind me and all I saw was smoke and a Mack truck grill. I couldn't go to the right because of trucks and the tropper was standing in the empty fast lane. I was furious at nearly being killed by this stupid means of enforcement and wrote a letter chastising them. A week or two later, a local sheriff was killed on a county road in MD dong the same thing. MD has now stopped this silliness but I've yet to hear from the MD State Police.
I have recent story for another time involving two PA state troopers pulling a dumb-arse move on I-81.
I try to drive as safely as possible in order to survive and it really sets me off when police officers are the problem. (apologies to any officers on this list)
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Al
Edited by ssjones (07/18/07 05:41 AM)
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lctrc
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Richmond, VA
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This legislation is about revenue. It even states exactly that in the legislation itself. It doesn't even pretend to be about public safety.
It came to pass when VA's General Assembly couldn't pass a 1-cent gas tax increase for transportation funding. This was the "compromise".
It's already being challenged in several cases, and on several constitutional basis. It won't be long before a judge bars enforcement pending outcome. Furthermore, the online petition has actually gotten lawmakers attention - there have already been calls by General Assembly for the Governor to convene a special session for the specific purpose of repealing the legislation. Many incumbents don't want this to be an election issue.
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'05 SM, Bubs, Freak, 45/TBS/155, NGK Iridiums, Nology Wires & Coils, Progressive 440's & Fork Springs
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jj_
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1213
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John and Larry,
You are correct. I shouldn't post late when I'm tired.
Sorry for taking is so seriously.
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bennybmn
Should be Riding
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 12688
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Al, I'm a big "flow of traffic" kind of driver. Generally the high side of the flow, but flow none the less. I think a lot of people concentrate on that, and if a stationary object (like a police officer) comes up, it REALLY shakes things up. People even SEE a cop car around here and they STAB at the brakes. 4 cars back all of a sudden you are going 30 in the left lane of the LIE. Not fun.
My dad is one of those "slower is better" kinda guys. He'll frown upon you for going 70 in a 55, but if someone is going 40 he thinks its fine because it is "within the law". Well, going 40 in an interstate might as well be standing still!! I'll take my MSF instructors advice. Better to get up and go in the fast lane than become and obstacle for a mack truck.
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Bucky
Loquacious
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 3971
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I worked in interstate transportation for 30 years, and experienced more than a few of these bizzarre occurrences. Whenever a tax is involved, the more bizzarre it was.
A few of the odd ones I recall: MA used to require all out of state drivers to obtain a MA driver's license if they were operating commercial vehicles for the purpose of MA intrastate only work duties. The thought of license reciprocity, common among the 50 states since hector was a pup, was somehow circumvented.
The NY Thruway would impound commercial vehicles for being a few hundred pounds overweight, until the fine was paid. So if the police scale did not match the shipper's scale - tough luck. Show them the money.
MA would impound commercial vehicles if the base plate was not issued by the jurisdiction of domicile.
PA levied an 'axle tax' on out of state vehicles only. It was struck down as unconstitutional, and so PA dug up an ancient foreign franchise tax to levy on the out of staters.
NJ also dug out an ancient foreign franchise tax for out of staters. If a company does not appear on the list of those participating in the tax program, the vehicle is impounded.
It is perhaps my opinion alone that these odd laws often coincide with a states need to raise cash after too many instances of reckless spending. We in NW CT are going to build a 40 million dollar court house on 6 or 8 acres of land. The cost to do the study on this 6 or 8 acres: $500,000. That's a lotta perc testing, if you ask me.
The good news is in many cases, the bizarre laws generally get trimmed back or corrected to somewhat more common sense grounds, but life can get 'interesting' in the mean time.
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77T140V
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1175
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Quote:
I find it interesting that of the 4 Virginians who posted, 2 don't express a real firm opinion …..
You’re correct, this issue deserves more than my normal flippant smart-apple response. I had to do my research first.
Quote:
Here's the online petition, for VA only residents:
I did “sign†the petition against this bill, but not “entirely†for the reasons called out in the petition:
1. The fines inflict a punishment on drivers that is disproportionate to the degree of the offense they committed.
If you review in detail the link in the original post you’ll see it points to a document calling out the specifics. This bill goes way beyond felonies, “loosely†in some cases, addressing misdemeanors. ie…….
“(d) Other misdemeanors, “Any other misdemeanor conviction for a driving and/or motor vehicle related violation of Title 18.2 or Title 46.2 that is not included in one of the preceding three subdivisionsâ€: $300 to the court upon conviction, with two additional
payments of $300 each due to DMV, one within 14 months of conviction and the other
within 26 months of conviction.â€
“46.2-852 RD - GENERALLY - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Any misdemeanor covered in Title 18.2 and 46.2 linked above.
“46.2-853 RD - OPERATE IMPROPER BRAKES - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Brake pads worn, pay the man.
“46.2-860 RD - FAIL TO GIVE PROPER SIGNAL - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Forget to signal at anytime, pay the man.
“46.2-861 RD - DRIVE TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
Subjective at best, pay the man.
“46.2-864 RD - ON PARKING LOTS, ETC - MISDEMEANOR (C)2 $350 Misdemeanor 1â€
10mph instead of 5mph in a lot, pay the man.
“46.2-1042 OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE WITH BELOW-STANDARD TIRES (C)3 $300 Misdemeanor 1â€
Better have your state inspection ticket with you, or pay the man. Not from a state requiring annual safety inspections? Pay the man.
The remaining points of the petition don’t bother me, as I consider it the status quo in the capitalistic society I choose to live in:
2. The fines are mandatory, and judges are given no discretion in sentencing.
3. The language of the bill states that the purpose is to "generate revenue" and hence the fines have nothing to do with traffic safety.
4. The bill's sponsor, Del. David Albo (R- 42nd District) is a partner in a law firm that specializes in traffic court cases and stands to benefit personally from this legislation. This type of conflict of interest should not be tolerated.
5. The fines in the bill apply ONLY to Virginia residents, hence unfairly creating different penalties for the same traffic offense based solely on residency.
6. In order to generate additional revenue, points for driving offenses remain on the offender's license for up to 11 years. This will unnecessarily increase the offender's insurance rates for a time frame that is incongruent with the degree of the offense.
So ….. in my humble opinion: If this bill just covered felony level offenses, I would accept it for what I hoped it would be: a way to generate revenue targeting felons and repeat felons by hitting them in the pocket-book. Unfortunately it goes too far as it also encompasses misdemeanors requiring subjective interpretation.
Regards,
Tom
"Virginia is for Lovers"
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bigbill
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6138
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude  .
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"I miss Kansas": Dorothy
"I miss the rains down In Africa": Toto
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude .
That means a lot coming from you 
I think the Virginia law is asinine. My post simply took the position I’m sure the self righteous politicians who dreamed it up certainly took and pushed it one step further to show just how ridiculous the concept is. Sarcastic? Sure, so what. If that makes my point so be it.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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bigbill
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6138
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.
And in your second post here Larry, you explained your position of disagreement in a civil, non-patronizing way.
Maybe if you tried that more often, people would actually hear what you have to say, instead of only seeing your condescending attitude .
That means a lot coming from you
Looking forward to our next argument  er, civil discourse.
But it won't be on this one
.
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"I miss Kansas": Dorothy
"I miss the rains down In Africa": Toto
Edited by bigbill (07/18/07 10:06 PM)
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Bill
Oil Expert
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 2009
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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I must say these big fines scare the cr*p out of me. I'm a fairly cautious driver (heck, I'm old) but I got tagged in KY by a trooper who was convinced I was doing 90+ in a 65 zone. My GPS backed me up but that cut no ice in my circumstance and presumably, if i got tagged again in KY I'd be in deep glue.
If I'd seen this . I'd have camped out in KY and fought the ticket but I was tired and wanted to get home. The item linked above has excellent hints on fighting tickets. Worth bookmarking.
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2004 America - Starship Touring Edition
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Bucky
Loquacious
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 3971
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Making some of these violations a misdemeanor (a crime) smacks of knee jerk legislation. Failure to signal? Sure - it's annoying, but a misdemeanor?
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Making some of these violations a misdemeanor (a crime) smacks of knee jerk legislation. Failure to signal? Sure - it's annoying, but a misdemeanor?
Sure, it makes it easier to put a tap into the violators wallet.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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bennybmn
Should be Riding
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 12688
Loc: Long Island, NY
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I got a ticket for cell phone use yesterday (on SPEAKERphone no less). Good thing I'm not in VA...
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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77T140V
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1175
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Quote:
I got a ticket for cell phone use yesterday (on SPEAKERphone no less). Good thing I'm not in VA...
You can talk all you want on a cell phone as long as you're not a "Intermediate license holder" in VA. It's forgetting to turn your lights on during the day when it's raining that's a misdemeanor (now $350).
Strange the above link states the ban in NY is for hand-held only.
Regards,
Tom
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bennybmn
Should be Riding
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 12688
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Yes, the law is "hands free only" which I took to mean, don't hold a phone against your head. I figured, since my phone was in front of me and I could still turn, check my blind spot, etc, I was ok. Guess not. The cop was even a little sarcastic with me...
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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lctrc
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Henrico Judge Suspends Driver Fees
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 3, 2007; B01
A Henrico County judge declared Virginia's abusive-driver fees unconstitutional yesterday, ruling that they violate guarantees of equal protection under the law because they apply only to state residents.
The decision, which suspends collection of the fees only in Henrico, was immediately appealed by commonwealth's attorneys. But it represents the opening round in what is expected to be a barrage of court challenges across the state to the penalties, which range from $750 to $3,000 and are meant to help finance a transportation bill that took effect July 1.
The ruling also sent new tremors through the state's elected leadership, which is facing a fall campaign with voters hopping mad about the measure. More than 160,000 people have signed an online petition calling for the fees to be repealed. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) and House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) issued statements yesterday saying that they are committed to addressing inequities in the law.
One lawmaker called yesterday for Kaine to drop the appeal and suspend the fees until the General Assembly reconvenes in January to consider an alternative. The appeal is headed to circuit court, where a hearing is scheduled for Tuesday.
(Full text here.)
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'05 SM, Bubs, Freak, 45/TBS/155, NGK Iridiums, Nology Wires & Coils, Progressive 440's & Fork Springs
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lctrc
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Richmond, VA
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2nd Drivers Fee Ruling May Incite More Suits
By Jonathan Mummolo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 5, 2007; C01
A second judge's ruling that Virginia's new "abusive driver" fees are unconstitutional foreshadows what many in the legal community predict will be a statewide tsunami of court challenges against the controversial penalties.
A Richmond General District Court judge, Thomas O. Jones, ruled Friday that the fees violate the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the law because they apply only to state residents. His ruling came a day after a Henrico County judge, Archer L. Yeatts III, determined likewise in another case.
Del. David B. Albo (R-Fairfax), a primary backer of the fees, said he has drafted legislation for the 2008 General Assembly that would include out-of-state drivers, even though he believes the current law is constitutional.
"Obviously, two judges disagree with me," said Albo, a lawyer. Albo said he expects scores of similar challenges in coming weeks, echoing the sentiment of court officials and lawyers across the state.
"Any person who's subject to these fees would make the argument," Albo said.
(Full text here.)
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'05 SM, Bubs, Freak, 45/TBS/155, NGK Iridiums, Nology Wires & Coils, Progressive 440's & Fork Springs
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 16984
Loc: NE PA USA
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Quote:
Hanging's too good for him, burning's too good for him, he should be torn to itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive!
Someone likes Heavy Metal, Thats one of my fav. parts.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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lylesdo
Learned Hand
Reged: 06/26/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Warrenton VA
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The legislation's sponsor Del. David Albo (R-Fairfax) happens to be a attorney specializing in criminal traffic violations. Attached is a section from his bio on the firm website. This should say it all...
"Dave Albo has been an attorney trying cases in Virginia's state and federal courts for fifteen years. He is a trial attorney in the true sense of the word. He has tried numerous jury trials, hundreds of bench trials, and too many motions to count! Dave Albo is the co-founder of Albo & Oblon, which is presently one of the fastest growing firms in Northern Virginia. It is a full service law firm, with its largest portion of practice in criminal/traffic litigation and employment law."
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'06 TBA - Black, AI and Snorkel removed, K&N Drop In, Gutted Stock Pipes, 145/42, 2 turns out.
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ladisney
Loquacious
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 3165
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Quote:
The legislation's sponsor Del. David Albo (R-Fairfax) happens to be a attorney specializing in criminal traffic violations. Attached is a section from his bio on the firm website. This should say it all...
"Dave Albo has been an attorney trying cases in Virginia's state and federal courts for fifteen years. He is a trial attorney in the true sense of the word. He has tried numerous jury trials, hundreds of bench trials, and too many motions to count! Dave Albo is the co-founder of Albo & Oblon, which is presently one of the fastest growing firms in Northern Virginia. It is a full service law firm, with its largest portion of practice in criminal/traffic litigation and employment law."
Hanging's too good for him, burning's too good for him, he should be torn to itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive!
And the sooner the better 
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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ssjones
Check Pants
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 5527
Loc: Hagerstown, MD
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"The only thing I want from my bankers is a calendar every year and from my attorney's that they are back in the coffins before sunrise" James Garner in "Barbarians at the Gate"
Quote:
Quote:
The legislation's sponsor Del. David Albo (R-Fairfax) happens to be a attorney specializing in criminal traffic violations. Attached is a section from his bio on the firm website. This should say it all...
"Dave Albo has been an attorney trying cases in Virginia's state and federal courts for fifteen years. He is a trial attorney in the true sense of the word. He has tried numerous jury trials, hundreds of bench trials, and too many motions to count! Dave Albo is the co-founder of Albo & Oblon, which is presently one of the fastest growing firms in Northern Virginia. It is a full service law firm, with its largest portion of practice in criminal/traffic litigation and employment law."
Hanging's too good for him, burning's too good for him, he should be torn to itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive!
And the sooner the better
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Al
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bigbill
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6138
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Now, now.
He's just trying to increase business and maximize profit
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"I miss Kansas": Dorothy
"I miss the rains down In Africa": Toto
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