Bucky
Loquacious
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 3971
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Quote:
Ok... I see... But I still want to get the same lines that your dyno has... I dont get why I am not making power in the lower end as quickly... It a gradual increase...
Only a guess, but your results are suggesting that perhaps the TORs are a bit restrictive, or the TBS needles may be allowing too much fuel before the engine can assimilate it. You should be turning more HP with 150 jets. Something is perhaps in the way.
I'm anything but smart about this stuff, and again, I'm guessing.
We were fortunate with the NH dyno runs that the dyno tech was able to interpret and translate the dyno results for us. It seemed he had a lot of experience with bike tuning as well.
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unclecharlie
Loquacious
Reged: 02/17/06
Posts: 3096
Loc: USA-CT-NORWALK
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Where's the air/fuel ratio chart?
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Cowtipper
Learned Hand
Reged: 07/22/06
Posts: 1337
Loc: Fort Worth Texas
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just a suggestion here. There are many flavors of the TOR pipes. some have baffles, some have none. Some have some dampening material behind a screen, some don't.
Perhaps you have a set that has some of the baffles or other restriction. The TOR's on Pats jetting calculator are for those that are open, I believe.
Look in your pipes with a flashlight. If you cannot see all the way to the header turn, I'd look at using Pat's calculator with the stock pipe and 2 baffles out.
Also, post the AF from the dyno. That will tell a lot. I'm running drag pipes and 45/150/TBS w 2 shims and I'm lean in the middle. From what I saw on the first AF post, you are WAAAAYYYY rich.
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2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Dinqua
Worn Saddle
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 6261
Loc: Honeoye, New York
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Bucky gave a very accurate diagnosis, good on ya Buckster!
Get the TBS needles out, put in stock needles with 2 shims, take the TOR's off and put on some real pipes or gut the TOR's.
You should be producing low ti mid 60s in HP and about 50 Torque with your setup.
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A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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greentp99
Member
Reged: 01/15/07
Posts: 64
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Hey Guys... Thanks for the input... First... The DYNO guy did not give me my AF numbers. I thought that odd but since I am new at this I figured maybe some do and some dont... Anyway... I broke down and bought a set of BUB slash cuts. The TORS I have are open all the way through but have what appears to be "dampening material behind a screen". I totally understand the WAAAAAAAY rich situation which is why I am hoping the BUBS will lean it out a bit. I have the 150s and TBS still in. I see you are running 45 pilots... I still have the stock pilots which I believe to be 42s. The BUBs should be here tomorrow. I will fill you on any change in the ride.. I dont know when I am gonna get to another DYNO but this time it needs to be with someone who will work with me on this and help tune it.... Plus give me a complete report 
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Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Stacka
Oil Expert
Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 2146
Loc: Canberra Australian Capital Te...
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Hey Ralph, It so happens I've got a Freak ready to be put in but what's interesting about your results for me is, I would have had the same setup. In other words, your results would probably reflect similarly to mine if I had a dyno done.
So now I'm convinced that in the first instance I'll have to at least take out a baffle or two from my long Tors. BTW, my tors are the "baffle can be seen 12" in from the end" variety 
So what I'm saying is, thanks for asking about you dyno results cos it gives me advice too on what I should do. 
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Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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greentp99
Member
Reged: 01/15/07
Posts: 64
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Ok... The BUBS showed up and went on very nicely... THEY SOUND GREAT!!!. However, Looks like I am back to the drawing board for tuning as I DO feel more power but it sluffs off around 3/4 to WOT. Looks like I will try the stock needles again and maybe a rejet... but before all of that... A trip to the DYNO... Still looking for a good one in the Tri-state area if anyone has had a good experience with someone specific.
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Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Cowtipper
Learned Hand
Reged: 07/22/06
Posts: 1337
Loc: Fort Worth Texas
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Okay. So you got good pipes now. This may help you with your baseline. I've had some time on my hands, so I've been messing with the cabs again. I'm running some tuned drag pipes with fishtails(FYI) and K&N filters (completely open). I just swapped out TBS w/2 shims for the stock needles w/2 shims, and it makes power quicker in the band. I'm set up as 45/155/stock needles w/2 shims on an 06 SM, and it comes on hard at WOT in the 5-7k RPM range.
Actually, that is what got me messing around with the carbs again. It was really lackadaisical until 5k RPM, then it hit a power surge. I thought is was over fueling (rich) in the mid range, so I took out the one shim on the TBS needles. well, it got worse. Went back in and put 2 shims on the TBS needles; whoa baby. That's much better. Same day, I read a post from Dinqua about pitching the TBS and going to stock, looked at some side-by-side photos of the TBS and stock SM needle, and the stock SM needles are shorter, so, theoritecially, they should open up sooner-like TBS w/3 shims (I know they are tapered different and the 3rd shim adds weight yada, yada, yada), but, none the less, this set up with the stock needles and 2 shims brings the power quicker in the RPM band than the TBS w/2 shims did. It is noticeable. I'll be swapping to 160's in the next few weeks just to experiment and validate, but I expect it to be too far rich (I suspect that I'm a step too rich now with 155's), and if that is too far, I'll retreat to 152's. I may try 42's while the 160's are there, just for the what if factor. Remember... this all works as a system, but perhaps this can be a baseline for you.
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2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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greentp99
Member
Reged: 01/15/07
Posts: 64
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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been a while since the last post so I figured 'why not' on thanksgiving 
after riding a bit with the bubs my right manifild is turning gold... so I am guessing I am a little lean on that side. I am thinking about going to 152 or 155 mains... I also ordered 45 and 48 pilots even though I dont know what I might do with them The more I learn the more I realize that I have a load of testing infront of me.... More to come....
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Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Frank
Loquacious
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 3753
Loc: cambridge massachusetts
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gold is ok, blue is when its way to hot. i wouldnt worry about it
Frank
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(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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