outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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For some time now my wife has been getting tired of her Honda Shadow 750's lack of power. 38 horsepower and about 45 lbft torque on a 560lb bike just doesnt cut it anymore and the shaft drive geared to a buzzing highway RPM gets old on long runs.
She test rode several bikes including my Triumph of course but settled on the Harley 1200C Sportster.
Got to give it to Harley this bike's torque makes it a blast to ride and relaxed low RPM 70mph cruise speeds are a welcome change compaired to her anemic Honda. The new Harley H-D1 customization program is outstanding, the buyer can chose from these factory build specs:
13 color combinations
5 wheel options
3 different bars
standard or forward controls
4 different seats
black or chrome engine cases
Then choose from hundreds of dealer installed accessories including 7 different saddlebags from factory color matched hard bags to throw-overs.
Fortunately the dealer I bought my Triumph from is also a Harley Davidson dealer!
Bike should arrive in 4 weeks.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Greybeard
Monkey Butt
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 7870
Loc: Charming Clovis NM
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As I have often said, there's nothing wrong with HD, but there is something right with Triumph.
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Pain is nature's way of saying, "We know where you live".
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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I agree, Ed. I've thought Sportsters were cool since the TV show "Then Came Bronson" was first aired...though I've ALSO thought that by this time H-D should have re-engineered the XL-series by placing a balance-shaft somewhere inside that beautiful motor. I mean it's not as if they haven't had the money to do this for a long long time, eh?!
(...hope your wife likes her new Sportster, OB!) 
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Well, it makes sense, the Sportster IS a girl's bike afterall. 
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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moe
Bearing Changer
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 9874
Loc: Merritt Island, Fl
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Quote:
Well, it makes sense, the Sportster IS a girl's bike afterall.
Why do you say that? Could it be that both are top heavy. 
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Blowing gravel off rural roads
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, it makes sense, the Sportster IS a girl's bike afterall.
Why do you say that? Could it be that both are top heavy.
AND fun to ride! 
Wish I could add one to my stable! 
Enjoy!
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Quote:
...38 horsepower and about 45 lbft torque on a 560lb bike...geared to a buzzing highway RPM...
 , Sounds familiar, which bike were you talking about here?
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Quote:
...38 horsepower and about 45 lbft torque on a 560lb bike...geared to a buzzing highway RPM...
, Sounds familiar, which bike were you talking about here?
Those stats are at the rear tire for the Honda Aero 750 with shaft drive.
The 1200 Sportster is no joke, it weighs exactly the same as an America/Speedmaster but it belts out 50% more torque!
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Well, it makes sense, the Sportster IS a girl's bike afterall.
Well it's my girl's bike now...and I can tell you it's faster than my America. So much fun to ride she picked a custom color that she knew would keep me from riding her bike:
.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Keith
Stickman Yogi
Reged: 03/21/09
Posts: 11664
Loc: BC, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
So much fun to ride she picked a custom color that she knew would keep me from riding her bike.
Oooo, she's a clever one! Congrats to your wife... other than the colour it looks like a great ride!
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Live to love, love to live.
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chy
Loquacious
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 3425
Loc: Dahlonega Ga.
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Shoot man.. I kinda the Sportsters, especially now they've widened the range a bit. Still hate belt drive though...dunno why, just don't like it.
Then Came Bronson was the source of my fascination with bikes... I'm working on a 75 Sporty for a guy now, kinda reminds me of Bronsons. I keep trying to talk the guy into painting it red and putting the "all seeing eye" emblem on the tank though.
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Ga Rally 13
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PES
Loquacious
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 4046
Loc: Tulsa,OK, USA
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Congratulations on the new bike in the family. I think you are fortunate of having a partner that shares your hobby. I am amazed of all the colors and and combinations Harley offers. I kind of wish Triumph offered a few more color combos.
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"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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Don't know much about the new Sportster but the old ones had over complicated transmissions and the cams (4 of them) ran in the outer case that tended to crack.That is the only reason I don't like them. They are fun to ride like many other bikes. I suspect the new ones hold together much better like most other modern bikes.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Quote:
Shoot man.. I kinda the Sportsters, especially now they've widened the range a bit. Still hate belt drive though...dunno why, just don't like it.
Then Came Bronson was the source of my fascination with bikes... I'm working on a 75 Sporty for a guy now, kinda reminds me of Bronsons. I keep trying to talk the guy into painting it red and putting the "all seeing eye" emblem on the tank though.
I still want one. Maybe not that Ironhead that Michael Parks rode into my memory (and characterzed by those who know as the most repairable bike ever) but I still want one, with mid pegs. The designer for Cobra aftermarket parts described the new rubber mounts as future "classics" at BikeEXIF a few weeks ago. They've been a big seller so there are plenty to choose from on Craigslist...ah, maybe one day....
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Don't know much about the new Sportster but the old ones had over complicated transmissions and the cams (4 of them) ran in the outer case that tended to crack.That is the only reason I don't like them. They are fun to ride like many other bikes. I suspect the new ones hold together much better like most other modern bikes.
It was a bit of a gamble for me to buy a Triumph as well. We bought Shadows before because the off road Hondas I had when I was younger were tough as nails and able to take more punishment than me, literally. Predictably both Shadows have been absolutely reliable albeit a bit boring.
Just like Harley old Triumphs did not have a great reliability reputation. In 1977 Triumph even had a advertisement admitting their bikes were hard to keep running...with a marketing spin that tried to somehow make it desirable to have a bike that might not start.
.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So much fun to ride she picked a custom color that she knew would keep me from riding her bike.
Oooo, she's a clever one! Congrats to your wife... other than the colour it looks like a great ride!
I told her nice try but I wear a full helmet with a dark tinted visor and can remain anonymous when I ride it. 
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Congratulations on the new bike in the family. I think you are fortunate of having a partner that shares your hobby. I am amazed of all the colors and and combinations Harley offers. I kind of wish Triumph offered a few more color combos.
Thanks, I am a lucky man in all the ways that really matter.
My wife is quite a smooth natural rider. She is conservative yet confident and hates riding as a passenger now. When we rode the Tail of the Dragon it was like watching a safety instructor doing it "by the book."
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't know much about the new Sportster but the old ones had over complicated transmissions and the cams (4 of them) ran in the outer case that tended to crack.That is the only reason I don't like them. They are fun to ride like many other bikes. I suspect the new ones hold together much better like most other modern bikes.
It was a bit of a gamble for me to buy a Triumph as well. We bought Shadows before because the off road Hondas I had when I was younger were tough as nails and able to take more punishment than me, literally. Predictably both Shadows have been absolutely reliable albeit a bit boring.
Just like Harley old Triumphs did not have a great reliability reputation. In 1977 Triumph even had a advertisement admitting their bikes were hard to keep running...with a marketing spin that tried to somehow make it desirable to have a bike that might not start.
.
Yeah, I remember that ad with that rather strange marketing spin to it, OB....and I ALSO remember wonderin' at the time how the heck they got Kris Kristofferson to do that ad, TOO?!!!
(...nah, I don't think that's him...but it sure kinda LOOKS like him there, doesn't it?) 
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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I never had reliability problems aside from the seal behind the points would leak sometimes and need to be replaced ed but it was a 20 minute job. transmissions were simple to work on only had 2 cams that were simple to time etc... You did have to know how to maintain them for them to be reliable though. The later models started to suffer from poor quality control though. Mine were and are all between 1954 and 1972 the mid 60s being my favorite to ride because they were fairly trouble free. The 50s bikes I have need more work to maintain and failure to do so would result in damaged parts. I rode my 66 all over the country with no real problems.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Okay, time to start customizing it. I actually kinda like what they did here: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2012/04/23/customized-harley-sportster-keeping-all-factory-warranties/
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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These examples are bikes you could order direct from the Harley factory. Brand new with full warranty on every part and get the bike in 4 weeks:
There are thousands of combinations so its possible to factory order a one of a kind custom bike and never see another one like it on the road.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Funkletrumpet
Loquacious
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 2538
Loc: Aldridge, England
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Whoa, whoa, wait a minute!!
Yo say WTF? to this ...
Bt yo like this ...
Next thing yo'll say yo boght the R3 for it's good looks! 
Actally, apart from those STOOPID wheels, it's not bad. All I can see are those wheels thogh 
(BTW, I'm leaving 'U's ot for Dwight's benefit
.
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ZZ Top : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaIZWjItReI
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Now Ade! Ya HAVE TO leave the 'u' in certain words like 'out', dude! 
(...or else ya sound like a Canadian when ya say that word...watch!..."ot"!...SEE?!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Oh, and btw...you're right about the above Sportster. Loose those gawd-awful wheels, and ya got yourself a pretty nice lookin' bike!
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Quote:
Whoa, whoa, wait a minute!!
Yo say WTF? to this ...
Bt yo like this ...
Yes. 
And yes, from a pure function over form standpoint, the Rocket 3 looks awesome.
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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I like the looks of the R3T
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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LJSpeedmaster
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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i've got a buddy that is lookin at a honda vtx 1300 and he has a sporty 883 older model, i think around a 95' and he says that he is afraid that the vtx can't compete with the harley...haha he is so blinded by the harley name. I just find his thinkin' on that kinda funny.
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
i've got a buddy that is lookin at a honda vtx 1300 and he has a sporty 883 older model, i think around a 95' and he says that he is afraid that the vtx can't compete with the harley...haha he is so blinded by the harley name. I just find his thinkin' on that kinda funny.
Don't laugh, he's right. I rode the Honda VTX1300s back in 08 (before Honda copied Victory's styling) and there is a reason Honda never publishes their cruiser torque or HP ratings. That bike weighed over 700 lbs and has been tested at 77-lbft torque and 60-hp at the rear wheel. And there is no way to get more from Honda. You can only buy an aftermarket exhaust and rejet/tune for a couple of more hp but not from Honda.
There are options directly from Harley for the 550-lb Sportster including a complete 1200cc conversion kit for the 883. Several exhaust & intake options and you can change final drive ratios on the belt driven Harley...unlike the shaft drive Honda cruisers.
The current Honda VTX cruisers are overstyled and I hate those fake chrome plated plastic engine covers. But it will no doubt be as dependable as...well...a lawn mower!
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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satxron
Loquacious
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3783
Loc: San Antonio, Texas--- 05 TBA
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The Sabre and Stateline are under 60HP and rated at 74lbs of torque. I would say the 883 would have a very good chance at beating it up.
The VTX is discontinued isn't it?
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05 Green
06 Black
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edmspeedmaster
Learned Hand
Reged: 07/11/11
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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sporters are just to small for my taste, at least the new retro bobber types like above, handlbars must be all of 25" or less from grip to grip, very thin ride, i looked at them and they are sharp looking just not very practical for anything other then going to tims for a coffee, JMO
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2007 Speedmaster and lovin it!
In Memory of "Friar John" 1967-2012 RIP
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
sporters are just to small for my taste, at least the new retro bobber types like above, handlbars must be all of 25" or less from grip to grip, very thin ride, i looked at them and they are sharp looking just not very practical for anything other then going to tims for a coffee, JMO
...during the months of April through October in the province of Alberta Canada.
Just thought I'd complete your thought there, Mike.
(...sorry, couldn't resist that one ol' buddy!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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LJSpeedmaster
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
i've got a buddy that is lookin at a honda vtx 1300 and he has a sporty 883 older model, i think around a 95' and he says that he is afraid that the vtx can't compete with the harley...haha he is so blinded by the harley name. I just find his thinkin' on that kinda funny.
Don't laugh, he's right. I rode the Honda VTX1300s back in 08 (before Honda copied Victory's styling) and there is a reason Honda never publishes their cruiser torque or HP ratings. That bike weighed over 700 lbs and has been tested at 77-lbft torque and 60-hp at the rear wheel. And there is no way to get more from Honda. You can only buy an aftermarket exhaust and rejet/tune for a couple of more hp but not from Honda.
There are options directly from Harley for the 550-lb Sportster including a complete 1200cc conversion kit for the 883. Several exhaust & intake options and you can change final drive ratios on the belt driven Harley...unlike the shaft drive Honda cruisers.
The current Honda VTX cruisers are overstyled and I hate those fake chrome plated plastic engine covers. But it will no doubt be as dependable as...well...a lawn mower!
the honda doesn't need any engine upgrades. it has plenty of power off the show room floor. in my opinion it wins in everything over the sportster. Its not all about the hp and torque. There is no way that a 883 can keep up with a vtx 1300, it may out do the vtx in the twisties. Idk why everyone thinks the 883 and the 1200 sportsters are so hot, because they just aren't.
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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A 1300 VTX kicked my America's ass in the straights but was humbled by it in the twisties. Just sayin...
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
A 1300 VTX kicked my America's ass in the straights but was humbled by it in the twisties. Just sayin...
Both my wife and I got long test rides on Honda VTX1300s at the Honda Hoot in Knoxville TN...and we both bought something else for our next new bike. Just sayin...
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
the honda doesn't need any engine upgrades. it has plenty of power off the show room floor. in my opinion it wins in everything over the sportster. Its not all about the hp and torque. There is no way that a 883 can keep up with a vtx 1300, it may out do the vtx in the twisties. Idk why everyone thinks the 883 and the 1200 sportsters are so hot, because they just aren't.
You are comparing the entry level Harley to the top of the line largest displacement cruiser Honda builds! Are you serious? This is where you start in the Harley line...it doesnt get any better than that in the Honda cruiser line.
Take that $8000 883 and in a few years say you want to upgrade the power, simply go to your Harley dealer and get the 1200 kit and you will be making more than enough power to walk away from a $12,500 Honda 1300 (I call them VTX but offically Honda has now given each 1300 trim level different names)
As another example Triumph at least offers TOR exhaust and a factory match tune for the ECU...Honda doesn't even offer that.
Credit where it is due here, Harley Davidson recognizes motorcyclist especially in the cruiser market love to customize their bikes through the years of ownership...or have the option to order the bike exactly like they want it from the factory which is what we did. And they offer an unmatched selection of accessories for the cruiser owner from a wide variety of saddlebags to a custom paint exchange program and performance exhaust/intake/cams etc. No other manufacturer comes close in this regard.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
Edited by outerbanks (04/28/12 03:38 AM)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
sporters are just to small for my taste, at least the new retro bobber types like above, handlbars must be all of 25" or less from grip to grip, very thin ride, i looked at them and they are sharp looking just not very practical for anything other then going to tims for a coffee, JMO
The Sportster is versatile, you can option it for light touring as well:
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Quote:
sporters are just to small for my taste, at least the new retro bobber types like above, handlbars must be all of 25" or less from grip to grip, very thin ride, i looked at them and they are sharp looking just not very practical for anything other then going to tims for a coffee, JMO
Back in the day, there wasn't much of anything that men (REAL men) rode across county that was larger.
I enjoyed taking my Mack Maxidyne across country, now THAT was comfort! (And not many would complain that it was "too small for their tastes) 
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Quote:
You are comparing the entry level Harley to the top of the line largest displacement cruiser Honda builds! Are you serious? This is where you start in the Harley line...it doesnt get any better than that in the Honda cruiser line.
While probably an unfair comparison (even if the Sportster wins) the 1300 is not the smallest VTX. Still I'm sure the Sportster crushes the Honda Shadow, which is a much more appropriate comparison.
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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satxron
Loquacious
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3783
Loc: San Antonio, Texas--- 05 TBA
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Actually there is no VTX anymore is there? There still are Harley Davidson Sportsters.
OK here goes. After spending 30 minutes. I was wrong. The 883 does not easily beat a VTX. Put some exhaust and a good filter in it then it will rip it up but a bike length or two.
The 1300 VTX will average out of the box 14.7 1/4 Mile time
The 883 Sportster will Average out of the box. 14.7 too.
The 1200 Sportster will Averaage out of the box 13.0.
Its seems to me if you are running even with a bike only 2/3 your displacement and both are V-twins it may as well be a loss. In defense of the VTX it has to spin a drive shaft. In defense of the Sportster, The VTX is liquid so can spin up higher RPMs.
The 1200 at 100cc less spanks it badly.
I never really cared but the 1300 is not a speed demon by any means.
I really like Honda. They just simply don't break and are a joy to ride. Honda has pretty much abandoned "fast" in its cruiser thinking. They have the CBR-1000-RR for that. On the other end the Gold Wing is no slow poke.
=================
Speaking of numbers, here are the big boys numbers for cruises.
Even though "When Forced To Select" picked another bike look at the write up on the Triumph. Pretty impressive!
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05 Green
06 Black
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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Not much into rice but Honda always was a well built bike that was very dependable. My neighbor ran several CB750fours one was seized fast when he got it. He let it sit in his living room with oil in the cyl. and plugs out. He would try it every day before he went to work and again when he got home. One day it spun and shot oil all over his white painted walls and ceiling. But with no other work done he rode that bike for years, last I heard it was still running.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
...though I've ALSO thought that by this time H-D should have re-engineered the XL-series by placing a balance-shaft somewhere inside that beautiful motor. I mean it's not as if they haven't had the money to do this for a long long time, eh?!
Harley is a little hard headed about some things, they went to the trouble to isolate the Sportster engines with rubber mounts starting in 2004. Apparently they believe the low frequency Harley v-twin vibration is part of the bike's character and they work to control but not eliminate it. The only air cooled Harleys that come with balance shafts are the Softail series, possibly because of their unique frames.
I dont mind the rubber mounted engine but I think every air-cooled motorcycle should come from the factory with an oil cooler like Triumph. But it is standard only on the Sportster XR1200X, and a dealer installed accessory on the rest of the line.
The real question here is how popular and profitable would a Triumph America/Speedmaster be with a factory option 1200cc engine? Would you pay $2000 more for an America that made say 85-hp and 75-lbft of torque? I would have. Such an engine could also be standard in the Thruxton.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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I would have paid extra for a 1200 version of my bike.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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OOOOOH yeah, OB!
Considering that you're relatively new around here is probably the reason you haven't seen all the times in the past where I have "waxed poetic" at this website about this very subject of why Mr. Bloor never offered up a more high performance version of these air-cooled vertical twins directly from the FACTORY and available for purchase at your friendly neighborhood Triumph Motorcycle dealership.
Uh huh! And if you'd give me about half an hour, I'm sure I could find and link to you at least half a dozen threads where in the past I've said and asked the very same question you've just asked. And even MORE coincidentally, have suggested that very same $2,000 figure as probably what the increased cost would be too.
(...and as you probably have guessed by now, MY answer is a definite: "HELL YES, I would have!", as I've always believed that ALL the Bonneville lineup needs to have 'em near "perfect" is about 20 more HP, which would've been the result of about a 200cc or so increase in displacement...yep, I'm RIGHT with ya here, my friend!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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LJSpeedmaster
Adjunct
Reged: 04/13/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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i work at a motorcycle shop and we work on all kinds of bikes, i've rode many different bikes in my life, including many sportster 883, 1200 and vtx 1300, 1800. I know that you harley guys get a kick out of the stage 1, 2, 3 upgrades, but i don't care what stage you use. Stage 1...2...3...50 (sarcasm). A 1200 sportster will get outrun by a 1300 vtx, with just minor modifications to exhaust and fuel system.
I know some people will disagree, (because they have a sportster and think they are the baddest bike built) but from my personal experience the sportster isn't as powerful as the vtx 1300 in a side by side comparison.
i'll be honest, i wish harley produced a better machine because i am an American but i just don't think they are on par with the european and jap bikes.
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
i work at a motorcycle shop and we work on all kinds of bikes, i've rode many different bikes in my life, including many sportster 883, 1200 and vtx 1300, 1800. I know that you harley guys get a kick out of the stage 1, 2, 3 upgrades, but i don't care what stage you use. Stage 1...2...3...50 (sarcasm). A 1200 sportster will get outrun by a 1300 vtx, with just minor modifications to exhaust and fuel system.
I know some people will disagree, (because they have a sportster and think they are the baddest bike built) but from my personal experience the sportster isn't as powerful as the vtx 1300 in a side by side comparison.
i'll be honest, i wish harley produced a better machine because i am an American but i just don't think they are on par with the european and jap bikes.
I rode both bikes as well and you are ...wrong.
A 1200 Sportster is a solid 1/2 second faster through the quarter mile without even trying hard. You see that's because the fact (not opinion) is the 1200 Sportster makes more torque, more horsepower and weighs well over 100 pounds less than the Honda VTX 1300. No modification at all just stock vs stock.
Why dont you post a link to an recognized source proving your point? I can.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Quote:
...i just don't think they are on par with the...jap bikes.
Nope!!! NOTHING is, when EVERYTHING is taken into cosideration!
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Quote:
...No modification at all just stock vs stock.
Why dont you post a link to an recognized source proving your point? I can.
Well, let's lead by example!
I'm interested.
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Quote:
Quote:
...No modification at all just stock vs stock.
Why dont you post a link to an recognized source proving your point? I can.
Well, let's lead by example!
I'm interested.
I agree. Demanding someone prove their point by claiming they have their own proof but not showing it is irrelevant. Everyone who has facts post them up. Butt dynos don't count. And actually, factory specs don't count. I think we all know they're often manipulated. Head-to-head results, with a valid measurement baseline and specifications spelled out, please.
I mean, really, let's take this pissing match to the next level and inject some science!
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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what is that HD power at, 65hp and 85 torque? Wait, thats about it for the bigger bikes, like the Street Glide. The 1690 cc Fat Bob produces 70.1 hp and 90.1 torque according to June 2012 Rider. That littler 1200 shouldn't be close to that?
And to think, the 1700 T-Bird Storm rates at 97 hp and 115 torque, a nice bump vs the 1600 T-Bird's 85 hp and 108 torque.
Edited by HeneryHawk (05/01/12 07:36 PM)
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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If I remember reading correctly, a 883 is around 45 hp and 45 torque.
Here is a bunch of stats of interest..
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/200801perfindex.pdf
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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It appears the best that the 1200s are listed at is 58 hp and 68.7 torque. Not world beaters by any stretch.
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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how about this?
http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/07_harley_sportster_883_dyn.JPG
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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And here, a recent article says that the 2011 America has 60 hp and 53 torque. The 883 Sporty is deficient in this comparison then, and it weighs more.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/259/9297/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Triumph-America-First-Ride.aspx
I do see where the 2012 1200C has 79 torque, but no hp listed.
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
Edited by HeneryHawk (05/01/12 08:00 PM)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...No modification at all just stock vs stock.
Why dont you post a link to an recognized source proving your point? I can.
Well, let's lead by example!
I'm interested.
I agree. Demanding someone prove their point by claiming they have their own proof but not showing it is irrelevant. Everyone who has facts post them up. Butt dynos don't count. And actually, factory specs don't count. I think we all know they're often manipulated. Head-to-head results, with a valid measurement baseline and specifications spelled out, please.
I mean, really, let's take this pissing match to the next level and inject some science!
So factory specs dont count?!
Yea...that makes sense? You dismiss information from the engineers that actually designed and build the motorcycles and test them under controlled conditions but will accept some unknown quality third party source.
And yea, when the guy who "works at the motorcycle shop" made his "butt dyno" claim I called him on it. Still waiting to hear back on that from him.
But you are right about all of this just becoming another pointless internet "pissing match."
Here's the bottom line: I traded in my Honda on a Triumph that I bought brand new. Now I'm buying my wife the bike of her choice and trading in her Honda for a brand new Harley Davidson. To Triumph and Harley that's all that matters, selling NEW bikes keeps them both in business. It's called putting your money where your mouth is...and we have.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Well, not to continue this "pissing match" here, because as I said much earlier in this thread, "I've always thought Sportsters were cool", I HAVE always wondered why in H-D's website and in their brochures they've always declined to post horsepower figures...that is unless I've overlooked 'em somehow along the way.
Of course, H-D's stock-in-trade has always pretty much been the strong torque figures one gets from their long-stroke pushrod engines, and so the only reason I could ever come up with as to why they seldom seem to post the HP figures of their bikes is that it would be of little interest to those interested in purchasing their product.
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Per Todd's info., although a little dated, unless I'm reading it wrong, the VTX1300's are;
Weight: 709-759 
1/4 ET: 13.5-14.17
1/4 MPH: 90.55-95.??
Sportsters;
Weight: 520-585
1/4 ET: 12.99-13.5
1/4 MPH: 93-100.11
Well!?
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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FriarJohn
"Lighten up, Francis."
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 18825
Loc: East Helena, Montana
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Quote:
So factory specs dont count?!
Yea...that makes sense? You dismiss information from the engineers that actually designed and build the motorcycles and test them under controlled conditions but will accept some unknown quality third party source.
And yea, when the guy who "works at the motorcycle shop" made his "butt dyno" claim I called him on it. Still waiting to hear back on that from him.
Settle down, Sport. All I was saying was independent verification. Marketing claims are often B.S. And even if they aren't intentionally B.S. they can't account for differences in road conditions, weather, temperature, rider error, tire composition, elevation, etc. etc. etc.
Bench racing (virtual or otherwise) is silly. Get both bikes on the same track with the same impartial rider. All mods (if any) on the table. Magazines routinely do this sort of thing but I'm not always sure they can be trusted (except maybe Motorcycle Consumer News) since they all take advertising dollars from the bike companies.
SCIENCE!
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BA.com Caretaker | Friarsride | jb.com
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Yep! Didn't we JUST have a Speedmaster blow off a Busa!
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Zmilin
Saddle Sore
Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 5131
Loc: Sammamish, Washington - USA
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Quote:
Well it's my girl's bike now...and I can tell you it's faster than my America. So much fun to ride she picked a custom color that she knew would keep me from riding her bike:
Ill bet you still ride it...
Good looking bike! Congrats to the misses!
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07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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Isn't the statement that this Sporty is faster than the America a butt dyno comment?
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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satxron
Loquacious
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3783
Loc: San Antonio, Texas--- 05 TBA
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The 883? Yes it is a butt Dyno statement. I think that would be a good match up. The 1200, no, the Sportster is way faster.
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05 Green
06 Black
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roadworthy
Old Hand
Reged: 08/29/07
Posts: 8908
Loc: St Louis MO
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Quote:
The 883? Yes it is a butt Dyno statement. I think that would be a good match up. The 1200, no, the Sportster is way faster.
I'll put a 1200 up against my 904 though, and likely come out on top
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I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.
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Keith
Stickman Yogi
Reged: 03/21/09
Posts: 11664
Loc: BC, Canada
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Quote:
I'll put a 1200 up against my 904 though, and likely come out on top
It's comments like that, that make me consider a 904 more and more...
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Live to love, love to live.
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Stock Sporster RWHP = 58, T = 69, but still weighs 585 lb.
Power-to-weigh ratio = 1:10, bearly breaking into the 12's in the 1/4 mile.
STOCK, NO $$$$$$$.$$ to the 3rd power! 
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Quote:
Power-to-weigh ratio = 1:10
Is it just me or is everyone else confusing power (torque) with top speed (horsepower)? 70 ft.lbs. of torque in a sub 600 lb bike stock is just jaw dropping....
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Power-to-weigh ratio = 1:10
Is it just me or is everyone else confusing power (torque) with top speed (horsepower)? 70 ft.lbs. of torque in a sub 600 lb bike stock is just jaw dropping....
Yep. The only advantage I can see that the Triumphs would have would be the wider powerband with the higher red line...our Triumphs are 7000rpm, while I believe the Sportsters are about 5500rpm...and with the Triumph's usable power still on tap for another 1500rpm after the Sportster rider would have to shift into the next gear.
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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roadworthy
Old Hand
Reged: 08/29/07
Posts: 8908
Loc: St Louis MO
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Power-to-weigh ratio = 1:10
Is it just me or is everyone else confusing power (torque) with top speed (horsepower)? 70 ft.lbs. of torque in a sub 600 lb bike stock is just jaw dropping....
Yep. The only advantage I can see that the Triumphs would have would be the wider powerband with the higher red line...our Triumphs are 7000rpm, while I believe the Sportsters are about 5500rpm...and with the Triumph's usable power still on tap for another 1500rpm after the Sportster rider would have to shift into the next gear.
Off the line, the HD torque is gonna take control. I would think once you jam second or third gear, the Triumph will fly by and put considerable distance between in the 1/4
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I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Given enough distance and a 904 or better I totally agree that the wider power band is an advantage. I'm thinking it would be a very close 1/4 mile.
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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roadworthy
Old Hand
Reged: 08/29/07
Posts: 8908
Loc: St Louis MO
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To be honest, the only true fair test would be a 1200 Sporty against at least a 1087, since we all know that size is everything, right?
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I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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I think the only fair test would be a 10K bike against a 10K bike.
Power to dollar ratio!!!
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Man, I'd like to see that! I'm always pulling for our bikes to blow away the competition I just have to tip my hat to reality...but wouldn't it be fine to watch Z's newly updated motor take on a stock 1200?
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Well Ed, then my money would be on Z's bike...and we'd see if that old saw, "There's no replacement for displacement", gets shot with a few holes.
(...and I'm thinkin' those DOHCs on Z's bike would be the "replacement" in this equation, wouldn't ya say?!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Well, that is the old push rod dilemma isn't it? Lots of grunt but you really have to jack the displacement to gain the ponies. I'll bet Z's spins up so nice that the top end of third would be a walk away...hard to guess the distance, though, surely over an eighth but might end up crowding the quarter as well. I'd love to witness it.
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Quote:
Power-to-weigh ratio = 1:10
Is it just me or is everyone else confusing power (torque) with top speed (horsepower)? 70 ft.lbs. of torque in a sub 600 lb bike stock is just jaw dropping....
You are correct.
We took delivery about a week ago and are still breaking in the engine so havent run it hard yet.
This Harley 1200 Sportster is tuned for torque and it works great on the street. Fifty percent more torque than a Triumph Bonneville and about the same weight. Accelerating zero to 60 and through the quarter mile the bike is quite fast (yes I'll say it again, it accelerates through the 1/4 mile faster than my Triumph) ...and it should with it's displacement advantage.
It's a great street bike, quickly accelerates to any legal road speed and it runs about 800 RPM lower than my Triumph at 65mph on the highway. That is an estimate because the Harley has no tach yet. You really dont need one though because while the Triumph pulls good into the upper RPM the Harley's power falls off and the rider can feel there is no point in reving it further.
Quicker acceleration around town and a relaxed lower highway cruise RPM make for a good street bike.
Wish Triumph's stock exhaust sounded like the Harley's, just enough noise so you know you are riding a motorcycle. The Harley vibration everyone talks about is not objectionable, since 2004 Sportster engines have been rubber mounted and the vibration that gets through is not buzzy like high rpm bikes.
My wife likes her new bike and that's the main thing, will post pictures soon.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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Not sure if it has been corrected or not but I never liked the way HD rubber mounted the engine and exhaust. The older ones jumped around and looked like something was broken.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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That hasn't changed much, BUT you do know that that happens only at engine idling speeds, don't ya Ian?!
Once ya give rubber-mount H-Ds any amount of throttle, they pretty much smooth right out.
(...though keep in mine here that I'm NOT takin' back what I said much earlier in this thread about "By now H-D should've redesigned the Sportster engine and placed a balance shaft inside that beautiful engine", like they did about a decade ago with their Big Twin Softtails)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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I know that but I wouldn't want a bike sitting there at idle when people are looking at the bike with the exhaust and engine jumping around like there isn't anything holding it in place. Just like when I first saw one and told the owner something must be broken and he replied that it was rubber mounted.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Well heck Ian, I'm surprised he didn't ALSO give that often heard excuse that THAT just gives his Harley "character"!!!
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
I know that but I wouldn't want a bike sitting there at idle when people are looking at the bike with the exhaust and engine jumping around like there isn't anything holding it in place. Just like when I first saw one and told the owner something must be broken and he replied that it was rubber mounted.
The stock fuel injected 1200 Sportster doesnt move much, but some of the big twin Harleys can really shake at idle especially if they have SE performance cams, or older carb models etc.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Well heck Ian, I'm surprised he didn't ALSO give that often heard excuse that THAT just gives his Harley "character"!!!
Each bike does have it's own "character" even from the same manufacturer. A 1200 Sportster is different from an Ultra Classic, A V-Rod or a balance shaft Softail. Same as the "character" of a Bonneville vs a Speed Triple or a Rocket.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
I think the only fair test would be a 10K bike against a 10K bike.
Power to dollar ratio!!!
Well I'd love to compare a $10k 1200cc Triumph Bonneville America against the Harley Sportster 1200...if Triumph would just build that bike!
I doubt they ever will. I'm sure it has been discussed at Triumph but they might figure a 1200cc America with it's weight, price and performance advantage and comparable overall size and riding position would damage Thunderbird sales.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Well heck Ian, I'm surprised he didn't ALSO give that often heard excuse that THAT just gives his Harley "character"!!!
Each bike does have it's own "character" even from the same manufacturer. A 1200 Sportster is different from an Ultra Classic, A V-Rod or a balance shaft Softail. Same as the "character" of a Bonneville vs a Speed Triple or a Rocket.
Well, yes and no, OB. The only difference is that all of your aforementioned Triumph models' engines don't shake in their frames at idling speed and are sooooooo freakin' smoooooooooth throughout their rev-range.
Hence, once again, my often stated point in this thread about "H-D should have placed a balance shaft inside those beautiful Sportster motors by this time", and especially since they WERE takin' in money hand-over-fist from about the mid-80s until very recently and just before the economy soured.
(...but don't get me wrong here, OB...if some kind person wanted to give me an XR1200, I would GLADLY accept that baby...and I wouldn't care one bit if it shook at idle or NOT!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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A V-Rod is more Porsche than Harley, Porsche designed it.
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
A V-Rod is more Porsche than Harley, Porsche designed it.
The V-rod was designed jointly with Porsche not by Porsche alone. All V-Rods are built at the same plant as our Sportster and Dyna models in Kansas City, Missouri, USA.
By your logic the Triumph America is not British since they are built entirely in Thailand.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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Quote:
Quote:
A V-Rod is more Porsche than Harley, Porsche designed it.
The V-rod was designed jointly with Porsche not by Porsche alone. All V-Rods are built at the same plant as our Sportster and Dyna models in Kansas City, Missouri, USA.
By your logic the Triumph America is not British since they are built entirely in Thailand.
Not true, they are only assembled there. Mine was made entirely in England. If they had moved to that Thailand assembly plant before I bought mine I wouldn't have bought it. HD imports a lot of the parts to assemble their bikes too these days.As I am sure Triumph did when my bike was made, such as the carbs.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Sooooo, let me see if I've got this straight here then, Ian...
It wouldn't have mattered one bit that these newers Triumphs look fantastic, run smooth as silk, AND handle better than any cruiser-style bike has a right to...you wouldn't have purchased the two you have IF they were built in Thailand, right?!
(...well, I suppose we all have our different priorities in life, huh!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Btw guys, from what I've read in the past about the V-Rod, OB is somewhat correct about the V-Rod. The V-Rod's basic engine design was orginially designed in-house by H-D to power their VR1000 race bike in the mid-90s, and was a testbed for the eventual V-Rod engine. However, because H-D soon discovered the VR1000 wasn't producing as much power as originally hoped, and was also found not to be as competitive in the AMA Superbike series as H-D had at first hoped it would be, they soon turned to Porsche in hopes that that German firm could help wring out more performance from it, but to little avail.
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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HeneryHawk
3/4 Throttle
Reged: 05/31/06
Posts: 984
Loc: Cambridge,IL
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I have a Speedmaster, it was Made In England.
Aren't all the bikes from the KC plant assembled there(not made), as most all the parts come from Indonesia, Thailand, and China(since they just closed a Australian plant to move that to China).
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Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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Quote:
Sooooo, let me see if I've got this straight here then, Ian...
It wouldn't have mattered one bit that these newers Triumphs look fantastic, run smooth as silk, AND handle better than any cruiser-style bike has a right to...you wouldn't have purchased the two you have IF they were built in Thailand, right?!
(...well, I suppose we all have our different priorities in life, huh!)
If they were built there(Thailand) I would have just rebuilt my chopper from the ground up again.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Sooooo, let me see if I've got this straight here then, Ian...
It wouldn't have mattered one bit that these newers Triumphs look fantastic, run smooth as silk, AND handle better than any cruiser-style bike has a right to...you wouldn't have purchased the two you have IF they were built in Thailand, right?!
(...well, I suppose we all have our different priorities in life, huh!)
If they were built there(Thailand) I would have just rebuilt my chopper from the ground up again.
Okay, I suppose that that would've covered ONE out o' those THREE things I mentioned these modern Triumphs have in abundance then.
(...in case you're wonderin' that "one thing" would've been in the looks department, 'cause that old rebuilt Triumph Chopper of yours suuuuure as heck wouldn't be quite as smooth runnin' OR handle as nearly as well as these newer Triumphs do, ya know...of course then again, I suppose anyone who'd extend out the front of an old Triumph doesn't really care all that much about that there "handling" thing anyway, huh!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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I used to throw that bike around better than you might think. I had many a traditional bike trying to keep up here in the mountains not able to. Have to remember I rode that bike everywhere for more than 20 years and wore that engine out 4 times. That is complete rebuild 4 times not just a top end.Not trying to say it handles as well as my SM just saying I was at one with it and could ride it way faster than I needed to to get in trouble. Use to piss my buddy with his shovel off that he couldn't out run me.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Yeah, actually I know what ya mean here. Ride enough miles on just about any motorcycle, and eventually it seems to "become one with you". I guess that that might be because you eventually get to know all the bike's limitations, and those limitations become a sort of "sixth sense".
(...and I don't mean that that means you can "see dead people" along the road, of course!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
I have a Speedmaster, it was Made In England.
Aren't all the bikes from the KC plant assembled there(not made), as most all the parts come from Indonesia, Thailand, and China(since they just closed a Australian plant to move that to China).
Then you have an older Speedmaster, most EFI era Triumph Bonneville, Speedmaster and America motorcycles are Built in Thailand. That includes frame and body build, paint and most part production. Triumph has 3 plants in Thailand and only 2 in England. If your VIN's 11th digit is a (T) it was Thai built if it's a (J) it was built in England.
Harley-Davidson's Kansas City plant builds the V-Rod, Dyna and Sportster models. Including engine production, frame build, paint etc. The plant is open for tours. Here are a few pictures.
 
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Sooooo, let me see if I've got this straight here then, Ian...
It wouldn't have mattered one bit that these newers Triumphs look fantastic, run smooth as silk, AND handle better than any cruiser-style bike has a right to...you wouldn't have purchased the two you have IF they were built in Thailand, right?!
(...well, I suppose we all have our different priorities in life, huh!)
I have to agree with him on this to a point, I bought my America because of those qualities and as I understand it engine production is still done in England. could be wrong about that. I certainly dont like the fact Triumph outsources Bonneville/America production to Thailand for cheap labor. And let's not lie to ourselves that is the only reason Triumph and other companies do it. It is short sighted and damaging to the economies of their primary markets. Why didnt Triumph set up some production here in the US or keep all production in the UK? Cheap Thai labor...and to get around strict domestic enviromental and safety regulations. I understand motorcycle manufacturers purcase some components like shocks, brakes, electrical, tires etc from suppliers around the world, Im talking about the labor intense ops like engine, transmission, frame build, body/paint and final assembly. I bought my America in spite of it being built in Thailand and certainly would have prefered it to be British built.
The least expensive Triumph is a base Bonneville for $7,699 built in Thailand.
The least expensive Harley is an 883 Sportster for $7,999 built in the USA.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
Edited by outerbanks (05/20/12 08:01 AM)
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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I understand the concerns about the whole outsourcing issue here, OB. However in my case, IF that factor ALONE would have overridden all of my other concerns, wants and needs in a vehicle I had before I've plunked down my money on the vehicles I currently own, then I suppose there's the possibility I wouldn't own my Canadian-built Chevy Silverado and my wife's Japanese-designed but Indiana-built Subaru Outback....and both of which have turned out to be exceptionally good vehicles.
(...in other words, welcome to the Global Marketplace, dude!)
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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HD uses more imported parts than you stated and maybe more than you are aware of.HD won't tell you what they are or what percentage of parts because it would kill the made in USA image they want. Just like they won't give any info on their oil, or at least they didn't used to.I haven't checked in a while.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
HD uses more imported parts than you stated and maybe more than you are aware of.HD won't tell you what they are or what percentage of parts because it would kill the made in USA image they want. Just like they won't give any info on their oil, or at least they didn't used to.I haven't checked in a while.
The difference is the most labor intense operations final assembly, engine production, paint etc are all handled in the US. Wish Triumph could say the same about UK production.
Triumph is just as concerned about their image. Their site has many photos, videos and information inside their UK plants...just try to find any of that on their plants in Thailand.
Harley oil is made to Harley spec by Sunoco IIRC. All Harley cares about is that Harley owners buy it and use it in their bikes. It is what H-D recommends so why bother paying to have it certified for use in other applications. If Mobil or Valvoline want you to use their products in whatever bike you ride then they have to pay for certifications proving it meets your manufacturers requirements.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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The_Dog33
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 17043
Loc: NE PA USA
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What I meant about their oil is they won't tell you what the specs are so you can use a suitable substitute.
I wish Triumph was still made in UK like it was and I agree with you there. I already stated I wouldn't buy a new one because of it.
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
some shots of our bikes
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trash
Learned Hand
Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 1010
Loc: ahoskie, nc
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Well I own a 2003 speedmaster and a 2001 sportster 1200 S. My speedmaster Dyno'd at 62 rear wheel hp, I forgot the torque. That was with air box removed and carb adjustments and pipes. My harley specs were 61 hp and 65 torque with only pipes and rejetting. This the S model with 4 spark plugs, 2 per head. They are a pretty close match. I enjoy both bikes for different reasons.
Outer banks your wifes bike is a beauty and im sure she'll enjoy it.
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barry1647
Complete Newb
Reged: 01/27/12
Posts: 4
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mate you will have to take it for a spin, but make sure the girl is at work, got pressure from my son who rides a 'harley softtail' which is bvery mice. My wife says no, guess I dont get one
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Yea, I don't care too much WHERE it's built, as long as it's built to good standards.
If the outsourcing for cheaper labor let's ME buy it for less, then my left over money goes to more/other goods. (from America or where ever)
When manufacturers make more profit, they pay more taxes.
IF other countries do better, then MAYBE my government can keep more of our "support funds" here in America.
IF other countries people earn a little bit more, and live just a little bit better, humanity wins.
When any countries people make more money, they buy more. (SOME possibly even imported from America)
One thing IS for sure, even if some sacrifices must be made, WE ARE GLOBAL! 
What goes around, comes around!
Time the world starts thinking as Earthlings, and not by ethnic groups. 
Idealist! What you talkin' 'bout Willis!? 
Peace!
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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outerbanks
Adjunct
Reged: 11/27/11
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
You cant be serious.
I gave you an example of an outsource built bike vs an American built bike of equal displacement. $300 cheaper to the buyer. Big deal, you spend more on transport and setup.
Quick lesson in economics for you: The market sets the price, outsourcing is simply a cheat to increase profit margin for corporate executives.
You really need to do some research into the reality of the situation. In recient years look at how corporate executive pay has become obscene at the same rate of domestic job elimination. Personally I would prefer for my purchase to benifit thousands of working class Americans (or British) vs stuffing the pockets of a handfull of executives that outsource production to "emerging countries" for cheap labor and to get around enviromental and safety regulations.
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2011 Triumph America
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Post deleted by erle
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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arstaren
Loquacious
Reged: 07/23/07
Posts: 3510
Loc: Southeast ,Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Personally I would prefer for my purchase to benifit thousands of working class Americans (or British) vs stuffing the pockets of a handfull of executives that outsource production to "emerging countries" for cheap labor and to get around enviromental and safety regulations.
Well said. It seems to be inevitable that third world countries are going to be bigger players and make more money. But here's the thing. I am for raising the standard of living for third world contries. But does that mean that OUR standard of living has to degenerate to make that happen? If Triumph could make the bikes in England, and turn a good profit, that's what they should have stayed with. Companies are no longer satisfied with making a handsome profit. They have to make a KILLING, or they take their business elsewhere. I'm glad my 02 America is made (for the most part) with British hands. And if Harley can keep MAJOR production in the U.S., my hat's off to them.
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Fidelis et Fortis
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satxron
Loquacious
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3783
Loc: San Antonio, Texas--- 05 TBA
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I just realized something. If you guys get to fighting and get out of control who breaks it up?
No more chill out warnings 
I won't buy a Thailand bike either. I just think of the British worker that isn't because there is no need for them.
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05 Green
06 Black
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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Your right.
I took the low road, time to turn around and take the high road. I beleive in what I said, as ya'll beleive in what ya'll do, but now ain't the time to start sh1t.
Peace.
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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arstaren
Loquacious
Reged: 07/23/07
Posts: 3510
Loc: Southeast ,Iowa, USA
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Quote:
Your right.
I took the low road, time to turn around and take the high road. I beleive in what I said, as ya'll beleive in what ya'll do, but now ain't the time to start sh1t.
Peace.
We're cool. Just exchanging points of view. And I figure John is still looking over my shoulder. And chuckling. He'll be doing that for as long as we exist on here.
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Fidelis et Fortis
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Dwight
Fe Butt
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 17909
Loc: Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
I just realized something. If you guys get to fighting and get out of control who breaks it up?
No more chill out warnings
Don't worry too much about this, Ron. Ya see, in more than a few PM's to me over the years, Friar John would thank me for bein', as he would say, "his Rodeo Clown". By that he meant that I'd see where a discussion might be gettin' a bit heated, often topics which someone would start out by just BARELY being this side of the A.U.P.s around here, and so I'd take it upon myself to kinda side-track the sucker a little usin' my brand of humor(WITH or WITHOUT that superfluous letter "U" in that word) and attempt to lower the tenor of the discussion to a more rational level, SO THAT John wouldn't have to lock the thing up, which he always HATED to do to threads.
And soooooo, as I was sayin' here Ron ol' buddy, you won't have to worry too much about this 'cause EVEN THOUGH John has now gone on to his reward, I'LL STILL be doin' my freakin' "Rodeo Clown" act for HIM even though moe, chy and Wojo are NOW in charge!
(...and THEY better freakin' appreciate my "Rodeo Clown" act TOO from here on out, or THEY can just SHOVE IT!!!!!) 
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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oldroadie
Check Pants
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 5998
Loc: Alabama USA
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Just keep in mind Dwight that the Rodeo Clown has little to do unless there is an out of control bull involved. Lots of bull here so you'll be busy :-)
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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erle
Loquacious
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 3315
Loc: 25-22-28-0***-****0
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No, I believe everyone would be cool with it, it was just my opinion. I deleted it so as NOT to piss off Outerbanks.
NOW, I wish I never deleted it, as there was NOTHING bad about it, and now he may think there was.
(kinda unfair that he DIDN'T get to read it, as I'm sure he wouldn't get "MAD", and now he's gonna wonder what was said. He ALSO SHOULD have had the chance to read it and rebuttal.
Outerbanks, No disrespect intended, just a little childish on my part with the comment about "getting your goat", and the little e-con.
HOPEFULLY, one of the Mod's, or ANY Tech-God, can repost it with my permission, so things can be out in the open.
IF POSSIBLE, PLEASE DO!
As always,
PEACE!
Erle.
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And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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arstaren
Loquacious
Reged: 07/23/07
Posts: 3510
Loc: Southeast ,Iowa, USA
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Quote:
"getting your goat", and the little e-con.
I thought that little part was kinda funny. Ya gotta have a sense of humor around here and friendly banter and teasing should be accepted as such. Lord knows, I dish out plenty of it. But I never intend to hurt. Ya gotta look at the big picture of life with human beings and realize how rediculous we are!
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Fidelis et Fortis
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